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Chronos => Chronos User Discussion => Topic started by: Michael M. on April 05, 2019, 11:54:42 AM

Title: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Michael M. on April 05, 2019, 11:54:42 AM
Introducing the extremely anticipated Chronos 2.1!

Featuring a new 2.1 gigapixel/second sensor capable of 1080 HD resolution at 1000FPS with a maximum frame rate of 100,000 FPS.

Now sports Nikon F and Canon EF lens compatibility.

Chronos 2.1 features an LCD display that is slightly over 3x the brightness of Chronos 1.4. At 1000 nits, Chronos 2.1 makes for significantly better viewing of the camera controls when filming outdoors.

Attached is a full datasheet of Chronos 2.1.

Teardown and demo reel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4iBiVZlzns (comprehensive)
Demo reel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0opKfWNTJI
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: NiNeff on April 05, 2019, 02:14:48 PM
Sounds and looks great. Nice to see some user-requested improvements.
Will the preorder include a lens or just the camera?
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: 1022mm on April 05, 2019, 03:36:54 PM
This looks quite amazing!   I have been doing some non-production testing with my 1.4 at 5,900 fps and getting some fantastic results that are surprisingly passable when the 640x360 frame is algorithmically upscaled to 1920x1080.  5,900fps is a world above 1,500fps in the type of detail that can be captured.   My question would be what type of increase in frame size would the 2.1 be able to manage at ~6k fps?  This wasn't clear to me since the 720p max is still 1,500fps on the 2.1.  Are we looking at a similar throughput for resolutions below 720p with the 2.1 version?
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: PaulBryanTV on April 05, 2019, 04:28:36 PM
This looks quite amazing!   I have been doing some non-production testing with my 1.4 at 5,900 fps and getting some fantastic results that are actually passable when the 640x360 frame is algorithmically upscaled to 1080p.  5,900fps is a world above 1,500fps in the type of detail that can be captured.   My question would be what type of increase in frame size would the 2.1 be able to manage at ~6k fps?  This wasn't clear to me since the 720p max is still 1,500fps on the 2.1.  Are we looking at a similar throughput for resolutions below 720p with the 2.1 version?

If the throughput is a 1.5x as suggested then you could do 720x480 of any equivalent ratio.
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: rnighting on April 05, 2019, 04:42:27 PM
Not sure if it would be better to repost questions, or just link them, so I'll just link them for now:
http://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=463.0 (http://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=463.0)
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Michael M. on April 05, 2019, 09:07:36 PM
Sounds and looks great. Nice to see some user-requested improvements.
Will the preorder include a lens or just the camera?

I don't believe we are including lenses with this one.
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: patrickrebstock on April 05, 2019, 11:59:02 PM
@cornflakes are there going to be any improvements to the speed of saving to the sd card? like using a fast sdxc and saving much quicker?
there is going to be larger files with the new one and its already really slow on the current camera.
this is my number one concern in the waterhousing, i pre ordered the camera but need to know about saving.
everthing else looks good sensor size and brighter screen and more res
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Nikon1 on April 06, 2019, 06:01:53 AM
Wow, that is really nice to see, that the Chronos is now finally going Full 1080p!
Now I am Kind of happy that i couldn´t afford a Chronos 1.4 yet, because if i bought one, i would propably not be able to buy an 2.1 anytime soon  ;)
Sensor Size is a bit big for my taste, 1" would have been Perfect for me, because of my lenses, but since it is an Highspeed-Camera, i could still do something around 720p @ 1500fps and still get something like an 1" Sensor size for my Lenses, that wont quite Cover 4/3".
But for anyone else 4/3" is propably a lot better, also it should improve Image quality allready because of that bigger Sensor and therefore much bigger Pixels on the Sensor itself.
AND it will still do 60fps continous (when it is supportet in software at some Point) at 1080p with CinemaDNG-Output on an 4/3" sensor and has Global Shutter. Thats quite something, and would work well even as an Production Camera for Real time Footage.
Also Like the 800 Base ISO! For a Camera like that, this is an actual Live-Saver! But for Real-Time-Filming with it, i am somewhat sure, that i will end up with an ND-Filter on my lens quite often (Which is not a bad thing to be clear).
The Reel is pretty good. This one has some very good Footage on it, and the Production Level improoved a lot since the first Demo-Videos from the 1.4 Chronos.
Even if 5k seems a lot of money, this is actually a very good price for that camera! Looking Forward to get one if possible.
.
#EDIT#: Also, i hope you guys from Chrontech will come far with your Project right here! Love what you are doing here, listening to what people want and sell Products at realistic prices, one could afford!
.
#EDIT2#: I hope that Underwater- Chronos 1.4 was either an Showpice without internals or was defective in some way, otherwise, that would be somewhat sad...
...OR You guys are Developing some kind of Underwater-Slowmo-Cam here and this is Leaked Footage from testing.  :)
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Nikon1 on April 06, 2019, 07:24:55 AM
Just watched that 2.1-Demo-Reel again and noticed, just HOW good the Colors (and Dynamic Range) look.
Either someone with great Skills who knows his Buissnes well did the Grading or the 2.1 is just THAT good...?
Colorwise the best thing i ever saw out of all the Chronos Footage around.
Seems like you Krontech guys now got your Color Science on spot right!
If you keep improofing at that speed you will be able to take on Arri in a few years  ;D
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Buddlich on April 06, 2019, 09:48:25 AM
Chronos full HD... David, I love you for this one!!!! :'D

I'm realy fighting with myself If I should just buy one right now... Only the 19% tax for the import to Germany is such a pain in the a... That fact is the only thing holding me back ordering one right now (that would be around 1000€ for nothing >.< ...)

If you would just open a store in the EU ... That would be awesome. :'D
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Max on April 06, 2019, 02:24:20 PM
This looks quite amazing!   I have been doing some non-production testing with my 1.4 at 5,900 fps and getting some fantastic results that are actually passable when the 640x360 frame is algorithmically upscaled to 1080p.  5,900fps is a world above 1,500fps in the type of detail that can be captured.   My question would be what type of increase in frame size would the 2.1 be able to manage at ~6k fps?  This wasn't clear to me since the 720p max is still 1,500fps on the 2.1.  Are we looking at a similar throughput for resolutions below 720p with the 2.1 version?

If the throughput is a 1.5x as suggested then you could do 720x480 of any equivalent ratio.

The LUX2100 sensor which the Chronos 2.1 utilizes does have slightly stricter limitations when it comes to horizontal windowing, so I'm not sure if it's possible to window to horizontal resolution of 720 pixels.


Max
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Martin on April 07, 2019, 05:58:43 AM
If you would just open a store in the EU ... That would be awesome. :'D

Hehe, I second that wholeheartedly!! :D (Maybe not the UK though...no offense  :) )

Or some Trade-In option for current Chronos owners, which "made it all possible"  ;D ;D ;D
(For a smaller HW-upgrade fee, of course ;) Since all its hardware seems to be VERY recyclable?)

Or why not both proposals? :D

All the best!
Martin
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Nikon1 on April 07, 2019, 06:16:35 AM
Also German here, and i did Absolutely forget, that there Will be also taxes added on that 5000 Pricetag für the 2.1.
Well that sucks.
Just an question, not for me, since i dont have a Chronos yet, but for any other owner in Germany:
If they send the 1.4 camera back to Canada and you do an "repair" or "upgrade" to an 2.1 Chronos and send that 2.1 then back to Germany, will there Still be the huge tax to pay or would that be a way around it?
Just wondering....
.
Also, just thought about it, and there will propably be a lot of people upgrading and selling their used 1.4 Chronos. So i am allready looking forward to maybe find some used ones in medium condition at even lower prices? we will see  :)
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Martin on April 07, 2019, 10:03:57 AM
Also German here, and i did Absolutely forget, that there Will be also taxes added on that 5000 Pricetag für the 2.1.
Well that sucks.
Just an question, not for me, since i dont have a Chronos yet, but for any other owner in Germany:
If they send the 1.4 camera back to Canada and you do an "repair" or "upgrade" to an 2.1 Chronos and send that 2.1 then back to Germany, will there Still be the huge tax to pay or would that be a way around it?
Just wondering....

Well, shipping would need to be insured, of course, as with any warranty or repair exchange.
And iirc it's postage and insured value combined which triggers VAT here, at a certain amount (was it 150 Euros? In any case, you'd be well above that. I believe there wouldn't be additional customs taxes since it's a "digital camera", which is, as well as "camera equipment" like lenses etc, excluded from customs taxes, iirc). So, yes, it'd be expensive, that's why I liked the idea for an EU salespoint/office very much :D
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Fyodor on April 07, 2019, 10:51:32 PM
Wow, VERY nice!

Unfortunately  ;) I already have a 1.4, and no play money left.

Maybe I'll save a bit towards the 4.8 coming in 2024 :p

You mentioned, the 2.1 will be able to accept Nikon lenses? But on the video the camera body looks like it also had the CS mount. Will an adapter work on the 1.4, to accept Nikon lenses? I have a Nikon DSLR, and buying dual use lenses would relax my ministry of finance quite a bit.
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: BiduleOhm on April 08, 2019, 12:51:42 AM
Yes, the 2.1 is the same as the 1.4 regarding the lens mount, so it'll work no problem.
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: hydraulicpresschannel on April 08, 2019, 06:34:50 AM
I Had to order one with the color sensor. I am also tempted to order second one with monochrome sensor but my wife would get even more angry so I think I have to pass that :D

The Chronos 1.4 has been really good for Youtube use but some of our customers that are ordering add videos etc. don't want to use 720p footage at all. But now I can still have my 1500€ high speed camera fee on final bill with out paying same amount for Phantom rental :D
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Michael M. on April 11, 2019, 02:00:06 PM
We can address the package to your neighbour so your wife would never find out!   ;)
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: huythuy on April 11, 2019, 10:10:57 PM
1. can you further explain the compatibility note for EF & F lens ?

it seems 2.1 still has the C-mount, right ? Does that mean the C-EF or C-F adapter will be provided with the purchase ?

2. I saw in the forum there's a thread where the 3D printed C-MTF adapter was shared and seemed to work. The 2.1 sensor is now much bigger than 1.4, which MTF Speedbooster adapter is now working better with the new 2.1 ? the Metabones 0.58x, 0.64x (XL), or 0.71x ?

3. I wish Krontech will provide customer with prebuilt on-camera MTF mount, which sounds right for a MTF sensor camera.
Standard MTF mount will open a lot of possibility for usage of lens and adapters.
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: dindindy on April 12, 2019, 09:21:56 PM
Many MFT lens needs the camera body to control the motor inside the lens to focus even when you select the manual focusing mode. Only some Pro MFT lens have the  mechanic design which U can focus with the focusing ring and select the F no. by the aparture ring. This is a huge budget for Krontech to buy the patent from Pana & OM. So Chronons will not cost several k US $ *_*
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: huythuy on April 12, 2019, 10:25:40 PM
well it doesn't necessary mean using MTF lenses on MTF mount. A well design non-electronic controlled MTF mount will give us more options to buy off the shelf adapters to PL - F - and EF which also give chance to speed boost the lens

it's clearly more videographer-friendly and has been done here before on Chronos 1.4: http://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=123.0
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: JamesB on April 13, 2019, 02:11:11 PM
As I understand, there will be a m4/3 mount accessory on the Chronos store at some point. What I don't know yet is how the reduced flange distance will factor into this. Aimed Research did a trial 3D printed m4/3 mount for the 1.4 and the tolerance and spaces were extremely small from C to m4/3.  There is value in offering m4/3 lens support because there are dozens of excellent non electronic manual cinema style lenses for the platform like rokinons and SLR magics.
The 2.1 seems to be a camera that will really change the market and allow ownership of full HD slow mo to everyone. Great Mission!
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Nikon1 on April 13, 2019, 04:17:59 PM
2. I saw in the forum there's a thread where the 3D printed C-MTF adapter was shared and seemed to work. The 2.1 sensor is now much bigger than 1.4, which MTF Speedbooster adapter is now working better with the new 2.1 ? the Metabones 0.58x, 0.64x (XL), or 0.71x ?
Well, i did some Crazy stuff with the Metabones 0.58x (i Own that one), and adapted it to an Nikon1 J5, which works Great. So it will also work with the Chronos as Long as Flange distance is considred. But i am Not sure if the 0,58x will cover the Full M3/4 Sensor Format, which the 2.1 has. For the 1.4 Chronos (full sensor Coverage) and filming 720p with the 2.1, it should be fine pretty sure, if you are interrested in Coverage of the 0.58x on the full Sensor of the 2.1 Chronos, i would need to test that, never thought about something like that...
The 0.71x should cover easily the full sensor of the 2.1, but i dont know the 0.64x and what it could do.
For 1" (the Format, i am used to and use) the Metabones 0,58x is quite insane!
1 2/3 Stops more Light! so your 50mm f/1.2 becomes a 29mm f/0.7!
Optical performance is very good!
3. I wish Krontech will provide customer with prebuilt on-camera MTF mount, which sounds right for a MTF sensor camera.
Standard MTF mount will open a lot of possibility for usage of lens and adapters.
Well...
"sounds right for a MFT sensor camera"
There are lot of Industry Highspeed-Cameras with MFT-Sensor and CS- or C-Mount. This is quite Common thing to see.
So there is nothing too much Wrong about it beeing a CS-Mount seen from that point of view...
.
Also there is some Disadvantages about going with a Fixed MFT-Mount:
.
.
so, you can Make the CS-Mount Chronos an MFT-Mount Camera with an Interchangeable Mount, but if it was an MFT-Mount to beginn with, you cant use anything with Shorter or simmilar Flange-Distance!
So to fit everyones Needs (Dont forget, that the Chronos 1.4 AND 2.1 is also an VERY interresting Camera for Industry-Applications! Not only Cinema and the Like. Everybody likes good performance for an Fair Price!), the way they gone with the Chronos is actually very smart and the best way to do it.
You are Right, "Native" MFT-Mount will give you a lot of Options for Lenses, but the Chronos has way more Options for Lenses, including EVERYTHING anyone will be ever able to adapt to MFT-Mount!
The thing you miss is propably a high Quality Interchangeable Mount (not one, that screws into the CS-Mount, but one that will use those four Screw-Holes in the Front). Just forget about the CS-Mount, if you dont like it, and think about it, as an Interchangeable-Mount Camera (like for example an RED with interchangeable Mount...), but you cant buy the Mounts yet.
If it helps you anything, i (and a lot of other people) could built an Interchangeable Mount like what you want. Or help You with Building / Printing your own...
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: patrickrebstock on April 16, 2019, 05:33:59 PM
well it doesn't necessary mean using MTF lenses on MTF mount. A well design non-electronic controlled MTF mount will give us more options to buy off the shelf adapters to PL - F - and EF which also give chance to speed boost the lens

it's clearly more videographer-friendly and has been done here before on Chronos 1.4: http://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=123.0

my adapter to m4/3 speedbooster xl to canon ef works fantastic and can also provide power for lens IS and aperture changes on canon electronic lenses via the usb micro on the speedbooster makes the chronos 100x better in my opinion
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: scottlw on April 16, 2019, 09:48:51 PM
Welp glad I didn't wait 2 more weeks to buy one or I would have got the new one instead of the 1.4 lol.
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Fyodor on April 17, 2019, 01:22:14 AM
Maybe you can still change your order, if it isn't shipped already.
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Nikon1 on April 17, 2019, 09:00:21 AM
2. I saw in the forum there's a thread where the 3D printed C-MTF adapter was shared and seemed to work. The 2.1 sensor is now much bigger than 1.4, which MTF Speedbooster adapter is now working better with the new 2.1 ? the Metabones 0.58x, 0.64x (XL), or 0.71x ?
if you are interrested in Coverage of the 0.58x on the full Sensor of the 2.1 Chronos, i would need to test that, never thought about something like that...
So, here You go:
Just Got around to test the Metabones 0,58x on my Nikon D3300 to test the Coverage of it.
Images are Attatched to the Post.
And no, this wont work with an Stock D3300!
Sorry also for the Crapy image Quality, the Off-Center Image-Circle and all the Shaking and Light-Leaks in the Test-Frame there.
This was An Image Taken By my D3300, From which the Shutter, Mirror and some other stuff i dont needed Was Removed. Basicaly Freelensing on an Camera without any Mount.
Images of that Monster Of an Camera are also Attatched (It is otherwise mostly still an Functional Camera like an Original one).
.
As you can see, the 0,58x Metabones will not Quite Cover all of the Chronos 2.1 Sensor completely, but most of it. Has still an Impressive Image Circle, if you keep in mind, that it was designed for an sensor even smaller than the one from the Nikon1 (which i use the Speedbooster on).
The not-so-extreme other Speedboosters should cover the Chronos Sensor better i think (never owned an other one...).
The 0,58x is still extremely usefull for the 2.1 though, because you will get tons of Light with that Thing (For stuff like available Light / Low Light-Slow Motion)! F / 1.8 will become f / 1 and F / 1.2 will become F / 0.7 after the speedbooster has done Its thing. Also, you will get some Crazy fast, wide "Lenses" If you combine Certain Lenses with that Speedbooster.
.
While looking through the List of Image Sensor Formats to calculate the Coverage for this test here, i realized how WIDE the New Chronos Sensor is.
Also, very interresting Format for that Sensor! Its not Quite AS wide, but still surprisingly Similar in size to the Super35mm Film-Format!
Combined with the Image Quality and the RAW this should be Very Interresting option for all sorts of Filmmaking (even if you dont need the Maximum Frame-Rate all the time...).
AND: 19,2x10,8mm @ 1920x1080px means that every pixel will be the size of 1 / 100mm! This could be interresting for all sorts of things, for example 1:1 Macro and all sorts of Digital Measuring and Industrial Stuff!
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Nikon1 on April 26, 2019, 07:02:31 AM
Sorry, Had some Problems and couldnt edit the Post above, and thus coudnt attach the Promised Images. While Uploading some Kind of error happened, and The Images didnt upload, just the Text, and the Page /thread here Was Broken for me since now.
However, here they are (hopefully, if it works this time...).
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Nikon1 on April 26, 2019, 07:20:21 AM
And here are the Images Of the Modified Nikon D3300, which took above image.
Please someone Confirm, that you could also see the Images online, and that the Upload worked this time.
Thanks in advance!
.
Just while Uploading, i found an image of the BMPCC-Speedbooster for Nikon-F-Mount Lenses (originaly MFT Mount) modified and Fittet onto an Nikon J5 (which was Also Modified to allow this to work). Image Quality is Outstanding, and you get 0,58x Speedboost and 1 2/3 Stop more Light.
I also Adapted this Same Nikon J5 to take MFT-Mount glass at some Point (an Interchangeable Mount...), just dont know where THAT image is...
Just wanting to say with this, if someone has the will to do it, you could adapt basicaly (almost) anything onto an Chronos, if you just wanted it hard enough.
.
#EDIT#: Wait, while Looking at the image again, i saw, that this was still my "Prototyping" Stage of that adaption! This is the Speedbooster with original MFT-Mount on it, untouched, but the Nikon 1 J5 has th 3D-Printed MTF Mount attatched! The Speedbooster later got an (interchangeable) Metal Mount for Nikon-1 Bajonet, and is now a "native" Lens for my Nikon1.
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: benp on April 26, 2019, 07:22:08 AM
I'm seeing the images.
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Nikon1 on April 26, 2019, 07:23:32 AM
I'm seeing the images.
Thanks a lot for the Reply.
I also see them now Finaly online, seems to work finally!  :)
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: NiNeff on April 26, 2019, 01:47:52 PM
Yup thread was somehow broken before, no I can fullfill my lust for reading new forum posts ;D
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Buddlich on May 26, 2019, 11:36:37 AM
Well, a while ago I read on your Facebook page, that you visited Canada's Trade Accelerator Program. That sounds like you read my comment - or you may just had the same thought as I had.

Are there potential plans to create some kind of store in europe, so there are no customs or import taxes? If so, I can promise you - you would definitely have one more buyer of the 2.1 :D :D
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Michael M. on July 11, 2019, 04:27:32 PM
We don't have distributors at the moment but we are looking to expand. So maybe in the future!
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: Buddlich on October 11, 2019, 03:37:46 PM
Hello,

I just saw in the 2.1 manuel that there is no mention about the 100.000 fps as the max framerate as it was said as the camera was introduced. In fact the max framerate is now shown lower as that of the 1.4. did you change that by purpose or is it just not up to date?
Title: Re: Introducing Chronos 2.1 HD!
Post by: skronstein on October 16, 2019, 07:38:49 PM
Hello,

I just saw in the 2.1 manuel that there is no mention about the 100.000 fps as the max framerate as it was said as the camera was introduced. In fact the max framerate is now shown lower as that of the 1.4. did you change that by purpose or is it just not up to date?

The 2.1 and 1.4 both have require a minimum frame height of 96 pixels because the H.264 encoder needs at least that many pixels to work correctly.
This will eventually be worked around by adding black bars above and below the footage at the time of saving the video, if the H.264 format is being used. Once we get around to implementing that, the 2.1 will have a max framerate around 100kpfs.