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Messages - Nikon1

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1
i always copy my text into the clipboard bevore posting, cause this is annoying and i had this happen to me bevore.
So if it doesnt load i will just paste it from the Clipboard and post it again...
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Back to the topic:
I completely get what you are saying, but keep in mind the development team at krontech is just a handfull of dudes not a huge company.
They are still improving on the chronos 1.4 (i think if they planed to never do a follow-Up model they would not have named it that way just btw.) and it slowly becomes somewhat mature and an complete Camera.
I dont know if the Team of people has the resources to develop an follow-Up model on the side at the same time but would seriously hope and whish they did.
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If the chronos would become even cheaper at some point in time that would be more than nice, but i wouldnt mind either if all that aditional money went into developement of the next model in the series.
Also, if there are people, that pay that much, you could ask that much... and apparently quite a lot of people buy the camera at that price point.
You are right, it is a Lot of money to be clear, i just bought a realy nice car for less than half that price two weeks ago!
But for a highspeedcamera it is an ok price.
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I feel like at that point in time there should allready be way better cameras in general.
There is a need for someone to do the same thing, which Panasonic and Sony did to the Videocamera- and DSLR-Market.
Their GH4 and GH5 and the A6000 and A7 Series brought some serious movement into the whole Market with some serious "overkill" Performance in a small Body at a reasonable price.
Now i hope Someone like Krontech goes on and does that same thing in the Highspeed Market.
But be remembered, even Panasonic started up with an GH1 and got much hate from everyone!
When that kind of race starts in the Highspeed-Market, then you could realy get some nice Cameras for dirt cheap and the Chronos 1.4 might actually be dated at that point.
But at the moment, Developement in the whole Highspeed-Camera-Market seems to be extremely slow and almost stuck. Not much new things coming up. Hope that developement gets much faster.

2
Hey its a cool project. I'm interested to see if it can fit in with professional timelines but it's not looking like it can. The same sensor company has released 2 new, improved sensors in the years since this camera has been released so hopefully thats something in the works... The thing is a camera such as the sony rx 10 gives practically as good 1000 frames per second now at 3x cheaper price. Also a very usable cam for 240 fps or 4k shooting. So I think Chronos is pretty dated for the pricing and cost of the sensors.
If you look for a camera with realy high resolution like FullHD /4k or even higher and /or a few hundred fps at a low Resolution, the chronos is not ideal for you.
If you have the money, get a highspeedcamera for 20+k or an cinema-Camera (most of them do quite high framerates).
If you just want framerate and could sacrifice Resolution for lower price, go with an Sony RX100 (which Version ever you want/ could afford) or go with the Nikon1 System, if you want interchangeable Lenses and the ability to use C-Mount and other Glass.
The Chronos fills a spot in the market between the 300 to 600 Cameras like those Sonys and the Nikon1-Series and alike and those 30.000 Highspeedcameras.
It is far from being dated in terms of performance in my opinion.
I went to an other company selling highspeedcameras and you would never think how much such cameras could cost if you get into highspeed-Cameras.
Around 10.000 are the cheapest and we talk about FullHD @ 300 or 500fps and alike. nothing very impressive there. if you go for lower Resolution, you are still around 20 or 30k for similar performance than the Chronos in terms of Framerate.
Go and Try find a camera somewhere that has:
-A built in Screen
-A built in Battery
-User Adjustable Resolution and framerate in very fine increments
-An Post-Trigger with Ring-Memory
-Long Recording Time
-Kind of high Resolution around HD in 16:9
-Well above 1000fps at that Resolution
-Over 30000fps at lower Resolution.
-An interchangeable Lens
-And it should be Portable
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Good Luck finding one that is affordable. only one that comes kind of close is that Edgetronic which i dont like for multiple reasons...
Next Realy Portable one with decent image Quality and some solide features is an Phantom Miro, but that costs WAY to much.
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No hate, it just seems you dont know how much those kind of cameras could cost...

3
Im absolutely with you on that one, image Quality can be improved. but resolution is actually quite good for the price of the camera and the package size and mostly for that Framerate!
For my Nikon1 we are talking about 400x144px for 1200fps and 800x288px at 400fps. Now that is a small resolution... But the Chronos is HD, that is quite reasonable for the most stuff, even when mixed with FullHD Footage.
Nikon F-Mount and Canon FD- and EOS- Mount-Lenses could be mounted to the Camera with no problem. Adapters are widely available for sale.
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You could even Adapt quite crazy stuff, like Lenses with native mounts for Mirrorless Sysems such as Nikon1 Lenses, MFT Lenses, or Sony E-Mount Lenses (including Every lens you would be able to adapt to an Sony E-Mount...) to the camera due to its tiny flange distance.
But for those Mirrorless-Lenses you would most likely need to make the adapter Yourself. Never seen one for sale yet.

4
Its a kickstarter, thats why i guess... :)
No big marketing campain here, just a guy building his own highspeed-Camera in his garage and starting up with a company selling a nice camera.
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The Color work you did on the RAW looks realy good. that is kind of the look i would expect out of an normal camera in that scene.
First pice of footage of the Chronos ive seen so far, where i wouldnt have known that it was shot on the chronos just by looking at the Color and overall Look of th image. Great work from you!
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I dont think it is just limited to Canon Glass, any reputable brand /Lens with known and prooven good performance will do for testing. Just might aswell use Newer Nikon glass, Zeiss, or High-Res/ High-Performance C-Mount Lenses.
Most good Lenses come at a price.
Though i would want to mention that this is not an cinema camera, it wouldnt hurt for sure, to let an cinematographer test the camera and take his advice for further developement (not only for Color-Stuff).
I double on that, sensor size is realy good the way it is, and if any bigger, then 1" but not more.
This size and Mount is perfect for using old Lenses From 16mm Film-Cameras and makes even the Standard 16mm-Lenses usable again, which are somewhat useless on an Nikon1 or alike (1" Sensors).
but again, the arri sensor is focused on Quality, whereas this Sensor is about Framerate and Speed!
Or have you ever seen readout rates of 30+kfps out of that arri-Sensor bevore...
I also would guess the Arri would blow the Chronos away in terms of dynamic range without any problems.
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Maybe post /share whatever exactly you did to that footage so other people could also benefit from your knowledge and skill. Also maybe the Developers at Kontech could improve their in-camera color science, so the out of camera- compressed Footage would allready look a lot closer to what you did here with the raw. That could save a lot of time and also up the general Image Quality for people wo are not familiar with grading and co.
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Also @ NiNeff: Your Sensor and/ or Lens is realy dirty AF! You should absolutely clean it bevore filming anything important next time.

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@Patrickrebstock & @NiNeff:
Please also post what settings you are using for those clips, especialy things like Gain (ISO) and Apperture /Focal length /What lens was used.
Would be realy helpfull.

6
test?
did you miss to add an atachment?

7
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosaicing
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So, there is what i was saying:
Quote from that Wiki-Article above:
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"The reconstructed image is typically accurate in uniform-colored areas, but has a loss of resolution (detail and sharpness) and has edge artifacts (for example, the edges of letters have visible color fringes and some roughness). "
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You will always loose Resolution with debayering, since You never know what exact color your pixel realy is, you kind of always have to estimate and interpolate, and that will introduce blurryness.
I dont know where that 70 to 80% effective Resolution fact came from, but i read it somewhere.... it is somewhere around that.
That is kind of the reason why almost any modern digital camera has a sensor of higher resolution than what it will output for video-Footage. There Will always (/mostly) be in-Camera downscaling to, for example 1080pHD from a 14 Megapixel sensor.
That way you realy know what color and brightness your final Pixel should realy be.
But for Highspeed-Cameras it is mostly Native sensor Resolution = Footage Resolution because of computing power limits and Data Speed Limits on Memory. And then, additionally to the quite low resolution of those Sensors, you have to deal with the Demosaicing...
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And about that 1080p thing you said:
Problem is, you need way more processing power for that kind of resolution at this framerate. And that could get expensive quickly.
Also, in todays Cameras the whole camera is built around the sensor, so you could not just upgrade the sensor that easily... you would have to change a lot about your camera if you wanted to do so.
If you want a better sensor in that kind of camera, the only way to do it, is basicaly built a completely new camera around your new sensor and use, what you have learned from the previous one... and maybe reuse most of the software and maybe also the I/O-Part of the Camera aswell as the buttons and stuff.
I realy hope the Kron Guys are working on an follow up model with higher resolution sensor. I allready asked David about that but never got an answer about that.

8
you could do 2x2 Bining on the chronos, thats right, but that is just for increasing the FOV for very high Framerates.
Think about it:
If you have a realy small resolution it is just croping the Sensor to a realy small size, so you would need realy crazy wide Lenses like around 1 or 2mm focal length in some cases if you just use 1:1 pixels because of that small sensor size to beginn with and the aditional crop you would apply.
2x2 bining is in that case just to make life a bit easyer, that you could get along with fewer, less exotic lenses.
If you would use 2x2 bining on the full sensor it would give you 640x512px total resolution from my understanding. That would allow for faster Framerates while still being able to get the "look" of the 2/3" sensor (like DoF-Effects and so on), just lower Resolution.
Native Sensor resolution should be 1280x1024px

9
As far as i know, the sensor does not use bining but is just 1280x1024px, but in a bayer-Pattern.
If you look up "Bayer-Pattern" (or whatever the exact name of that Article is) on Wikipedia, you will find, that even good algorythms will only give you about 70 to 80% of effective Resolution of the original bayer-Pattern, even with opimal algorithm for your Scene...
So, if you take that 1280x1024 resolution (which is allready quite Low, especially by todays standards with the ongoing megapixel war of big manufacturers) and multiply it by 70%, you will get around 1 Megapixel effective Resolution (in terms of Sharpness and Ability to resolve Details, renderd by the lens on the Sensor).
IF you use the full Sensor Resolutin, that is...
If you are going for 16:9 and use 720p Resolution, it is even Worse effective Resolution.
So, i dont think it is especially blurry or something, it is just "Low Resolution". But Given The Framerate it is still quite Respectable...
So the "kit Lens" is actually almost ok for that camera and most people, since the Pixels are that big and because you wont even see the unsharp lens, unless you are Pixel-Peeping like me and you maybe also. But Color, glare, flares and contrast are somewhat different, since it will make the final image look wrong in some Way.
Just for your info: i have very slow internet connection and because of that i watch almost everything in 240p or 360p HD Resolution. I still could tell immedeately what shot in a video was filmed on the chronos and which one was filmed on some other Camera...
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On my 20 Megapixel 1" sensor i would never want to use a lens with low Resolution, because it would be way to blurry for me.
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That Nikon1 32mm Lens (and all my other Nikon1 Lenses...) CAN be mounted on the Chronos!
I allready built an adapter for that, but i never got my hands on a chronos to do a comparison against my Nikon J5 in the Same Light with the same Lens and same Settings.
I would not wonder at all, if the Nikkor Lens would be WAY better than the Kit Lens, since it costs arround 800 or even more when new, and it is built for extreme High-Resolution 1"-Sensors, so it should also perform extremely well on the Chronos also.

10
As an professinoal i think you allready know that, but i post those images anyways for everyone else reading along.
Here is an quick side by side comparison of three lenses. All of them are realy sharp.
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The Leica on the Left is the oldest of them and an very early one, completely uncoated.
The Schneider in the midle is somewhat newer but still quite old, Glass has coatings.
The Nikon is a Modern lens design, realy sharp and Contrasty, coated.
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Images Flat, Graded and an 1:1 Crop for sharpness. All taken on the Nikon1 J5, 1" Sensor Size. Grading is just done to my personal taste for every shot individualy, to see what i could make out of every shot.
That is just to show how much difference in terms of the Look a lens could make, even if sharpness would be basicaly the same. Those test shots where Taken in realy heavy backlight, a quite demanding scene for older and uncoated lenses.
For some things like Cinema or Music videos those Older Lenses could produce some Desireable results, but for science ... i would rather use other, newer lenses...
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So if virtually everyone uses the chronos with that Kit Lens, the look of that lens could be mistaken easily with the look of the Camera itself just by looking on the footage on the Web...
Still waiting for someone with proper Lenses and some good knowledge about grading and Lighting to make an testshoot with the chronos.

11
Nice to have you here.
I would realy like to see someone push this Camera and its Footage to its maximum Potential.
Still dont have a chonos myself ... Mainly because of money and because i still havent got my hands on one to test it.
I also feel like there is a need for somebody to come up with some realy impressive Footage filmed on the Chonos, because i always feel like this camera could (or at least should) be able to do somewhat better, than what i have seen untill today.
I am more of an camera guy myself and also into compositing and animation, but sometimes i also do grading and color work and i also found most of the footage ive seen rather weak in terms of color/ contrast and dynamic range.
Would love to see if it is just a thing about grading or debayering.
Most people here seem to use the 12,5-75mm f/1.2 c-Mount "Kit-Lens". Maybe it is just the look of that lens that looks somewhat wrong. I have a similar lens like that one, just mine is older, and that is a realy soft lens with poor contrast and an realy weird look to it.
I dont know if the newer Lens here has the same Look, but i never use mine because it is that bad....
As an kit lens it is quite ok, especialy for the price and size and for the fact, that you could go to f/1.2 if you need to, but it gets very soft wide open and isnt even super sharp when at f/5.6 or less...
Whish you best luck in finding some Raw Footage and would recommend to try get something taken with a lens of known performance, because that could be a huge factor for image Quality.

12
Chronos User Discussion / Re: Happy to join the Chronos forum
« on: August 16, 2018, 02:36:18 AM »
Hello again,
Thank you Nikon1 for your comments and advices. I really appreciate.
 I didn't knew "the fluid head" but I already knew the possibility to add rotating mirrors and it would be difficulty in my case. I have an experiment with I already played with high speed cameras coming from colleagues (one phantom and one photron) equipped with long distance microscope lenses (questar or K2-SC with proper lenses) in order to have a field of view of few millimeters. The resulting working distance is not very long with difficult access which provides from using such rotating mirrors devices.
I can imagine that it is possibly a dream to program that kind of automatic tracking, but I am not convinced by the argument that it would have been done by other sellers if it is possible.
Technically feasible and good for the business is not always compatible. For example different phantom cameras can have different prices due to their limitation in maximum framerate. But in fact some of these cameras (the cheaper ones) are limited only by software, i.e. they should have higher frame rate but probably this would not be good for the market...
Ok thats what i would call no longer practical to move your Camera.
I did not know that you where into Microscopy, when i originally wrote my reply.
Depending on the kind of magnification and speed (of whatever you are trying to capture) you are dealing with, it could be actually impossible to move camera or lens fast enough for highspeed Video.
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A Fluid Head is just a special kind of tripod-/video-Head, which allows for very soft Camera movements, mostly used for Cinema/ TV and other professional Video Work. But a Fluid Head would only be practical for way larger Scale subjects, not usable for VERY small stuff...
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My only idea, how to solve your problem would be to film in an very wide Aspect ratio (like 100x1280px) and track your Subject of interrest in a Videoediting Software later on the PC. So your final Resolution Would be 100x128px for example...
Most Highspeed Cameras (including the Chronos) are not affected much or at all (in terms of Framerate) by horizontal Resolution, so maybe just use the full horizontal Resolution.

13
Chronos User Discussion / Re: Chronos 1.4 Footage Thread
« on: August 15, 2018, 07:36:41 AM »
Another video from BTP with three Chronos Cameras:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RQ6f-Axkbk

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Chronos User Discussion / Re: Happy to join the Chronos forum
« on: August 14, 2018, 11:44:29 PM »
I dont realy know, if it would be technicaly possible, but i think if, it would be difficult to do.
If you allready know where/ how fast your subject is moving, which you want to track, it would most likely be easier to track it with some kind of fluid head (used for Video-Cameras) or some kind of motion control rig.
If your motion is realy that kind of fast, that moving your camera is no longer practical, you could use a Rotating Miror, which could also be motion controled.
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Just a sidenote to this:
I never seen any feature like this (maybe there is, but i never seen something alike), even in way more expensive and professional cameras than the chronos. So i think, if it would be possible to do it would have been done bevore by someone...
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Maybe someone of the Krontech Team can give a more educated opinion about this, if it would be technicaly possible or practical to have digital Tracking in camera.

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Chronos User Discussion / Re: Chronos 1.4 Footage Thread
« on: August 12, 2018, 06:29:23 AM »
I think I should try out prime lenses that I have now here for the cameras if there is a difference. But in general we need zoom lenses on all cameras when we film since we don't have much time to use per one video, safety things also dictate camera placement and with high speed cameras the changing resolution makes things also bit hard. I try to always stay over 2 aperture since I think under that picture comes out always bit soft.
The point i tried to make is not about Zoom lenses vs Prime Lenses. Its not like it would be a crime to use a Zoom Lens or something  :)
If you need to use A Zoom that is fine.
What i Wanted to say is that there are a lot Better Options even for Zoom Lenses, and i was just curios if you ever tryed someting else than the "Kit Lens".
The 12,5-75mm kit lens is a pretty reasonable Preformer for the Price an Size of the Lens but is still a fairly low-End Lens qualitywise.
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If you must have Zoom then maybe check out Lenses Like the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 or the 50-100mm f/1.8. Also, maybe a 24-70mm f/2.8 and 70-200mm f/2.8. Those are realy good Lenses, there are a lot of different ones on the Market and you could get some older model (without Autofocus) for quite good price.
Keep in mind that you could pair all of those Lenses mentioned above with a speedbooster like a Nikon-F to MFT one. Those Lenses should give you an Optical performance very close to an Prime Lens.
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If you want to go with only one lens, then have a look into ENG Lenses , for example B4-Mount Those tend to have MASSIVE Zoom Range, sometimes up to 20x or even more, Aperture up to f/1.6 for the full Zoom Range and Built in Macro and can be found for high resolution Cameras. Sensor Size of the Chronos is perfect for those Lenses.
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If you could afford changing lenses more often, Prime Lenses are also a serious option, because you could get smaller and sometimes cheaper lenses which still perform very well.
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But most good stuff costs good Money...
If you just want to test out Lenses, then here a quick tip:
Visit a camera Store, pretend you want to buy something but want to test it bevore.
If you REALY like it, you could buy it, but you could always say you have to think about it and just leave without buying anything.
But get yourself a adapter for the Lenses you want to test BEVORE you go to test them, because the usualy dont have such adapters in the Stores!

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