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Messages - DDR

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Software Dev / Re: Updating the UI: Record Settings Edition
« on: February 26, 2018, 05:20:02 PM »
I like that idea. We could add a saved preset to the list of presets at the top, and then have little ✕s to remove the custom presets. I don't think you'd need much more than that, and it would be a nice feature to have.  :)

Internally here, we've had some discussion about adding some sort of camera-wide presets. You'd set them from the app that we're going to make. They'd essentially save/restore *all* the settings on the camera, though, which isn't quite what we want here. I think that's going to come after we release the new style UI, so I think it would be a good idea for me to have a look at adding custom presets then. Internally, we've got 0.4 coming up, and then 0.5 will have the new-style UI, and 0.6 will probably be when we address saving/loading custom settings.

Software Dev / Re: Updating the UI: Main Screen Edition
« on: February 26, 2018, 05:00:22 PM »
So it shall be!
And so it is. :)

Version D

C also works for me, based on a quick glance and think.
I'm hoping that the new playback screen will move the position slider to the bottom of the screen to give both more space and keep fingers out of the way.
So I'm wondering if doing the same for the Shutter would also be a good idea as the imagines tend to be long and narrow rather than tall and thin.

Yeah, I'd really like to have a bottom slider on the playback screen too. I've drawn up some designs with that in mind... what you think, Electra? :D

I'm hoping that pinch-to-zoom on the video will make the side shutter slider acceptable. It's a lot more accessible by thumb there, and we don't usually need the fine-grained control over the shutter that we do when we're reviewing footage. Plus, we'll be able to do fine-grained shutter adjustments with the jog wheel soon!

Software Dev / Updating the UI: Play & Save Edition
« on: February 26, 2018, 04:38:38 PM »
I've redesigned the current playback screen. This is a more theoretical design, since I'm not sure we will actually be able to do what we want to do. (I think it's important that we know what we want to, though, so we can explicitly deal with not being able to do it.)

I've only made up one version of this screen. It's a pretty direct iteration on what we have now; we've got the same controls along the side, in pretty much the same layout. However, we've added two major features:
  • A seek bar along the bottom to take advantage of the increased horizontal resolution there. The seek bar will display the colour of the middle column of pixels of the frame of video under that position on the bar. This should help you spot motion when you're reviewing footage and trying to find where the moment the interesting bit happened is. Also, it's nice and big and has a slider that lets you see the bar pattern. ;D
  • Multiple marked regions. Regions show up as different coloured boxes near the top of the timeline. They're red and yellow in the mockup. Right now, when you mark in and mark out, you have to wait for the region to save before marking and saving the next region you want. Having multiple regions should fix that. 8)

Since all this UI does eat into the video window a bit, we are planning to let you zoom the video itself in and out with pinch-to-zoom. (And tap-tapdrag like on Android phones? It's a little hard to discover but I really like it. What does iOS have to say about this? Hmm... 🤔 )

If you hit the "Edit Marked Regions" button in the top-left, it slides out a menu:

This lets you delete regions, rename regions (which will be reflected in the saved file name), and modify region start/end. I'm a little fuzzy on how closing the box will work. I think 'swipe left to close' would work, or tapping on 'edit marked regions' again. If it turns out to be confusing, we can always add an ✕ to the top-right of the menu to make it nice and explicit. :)

Software Dev / Re: Updating the UI: Record Settings Edition
« on: February 26, 2018, 04:25:15 PM »
Like this?

Software Dev / Re: Updating the UI: Record Settings Edition
« on: February 26, 2018, 03:35:49 PM »
B and E are the same file :)

So they are! :-[ Sorry about that! Version E was correct. Version B has become, well, Version B now. Thanks for catching that.

Here is the proper version B. I've updated in in the original post as well.

While 'B' looks better, I'd be a little worried about fat-fingering the other controls when changing a setting, but if this is not a problem in the real world then go for that.
I'm hoping it'll be OK. The new controls are a little chunkier than the old ones, so they should be easy to hit. If it turns out it's not, I'll redo the screen. (Maybe it can scroll vertically, like a web page, if it is really bad?)

You also have a bit more space to work with: move the 'trigger delay' button to the 'trigger' menu/page where it belongs. Not on the recording screen. :)
*checks notes* ??? You're right! It should be a button for record modes, not trigger delay! Trigged delay absolutely belongs somewhere else. Thanks for catching that. I've fixed the button in the image above.

I prefer version A mainly because it's more clear, version B is more cluttered.
i kinda like A because its more logical to have the presets resolution above the resolution up down controls
OK, I uploaded the *proper* version B now. I agree with you, E does seem less well organized to me.

Software Dev / Updating the UI: Record Settings Edition
« on: February 23, 2018, 04:17:51 PM »
The recording settings screen is one of the busier screens on the camera. I've made a few different layouts for it.

Version A:

You will be able to drag the white window around to frame up whatever you have the camera pointed at. We ought be able to get a live video feed from the main screen stuck behind it too, so you can see what you're going to record. Much better to see than to guess!

Does anyone mind the passepartout around the preview just being always present? Every other piece of software I've worked with has had an option to turn it off, but I really don't want to have to stick another option in the settings screen for this.

Version B:

We managed to get the analog gain button and the exposure button on the same line in this version. Analog Gain was sort of floating off to the right in Version A, I feel.

Oh, in all versions, I moved the trigger delay settings button to the Main screen. (I also put a button on the Trigger/IO Settings screen, it seemed logical.) I figure if you're trying to dial something in, timing-wise, you'll want to access the trigger delay screen quite frequently.

Version E:

I'm ambivalent about this version. I actually like Version B a little better, it's got a nicer vertical rhythm with its whitespace. In both B and E, the trigger delay button has gone to the more standard bottom-left corner of the screen. I expect we'll want to put another button on this screen someday though and the Trigger Delay will go back to being by the Done button. ::)

As always, if you have any ideas or comments, please leave them below.
Thanks for reading!

[edit] Fixed version B being the screenshot for version E. :-[ Oops. [/edit]

Software Dev / Re: Updating the UI: Main Screen Edition
« on: February 23, 2018, 03:02:32 PM »
version c but maybe with a few tweaks,
switch record settings with the white balance,
switch the prefs & utilities with black balance

that way all camera settings are across the top where not used as much and then the right hand side is all the buttons used while shooting


So it shall be!

(I'm kinda snowed in right now, so I must make my modified mockup Monday.)

Software Dev / Updating the UI: Main Screen Edition
« on: February 22, 2018, 11:12:03 PM »
Hey guys! I've finally got the wireframe-ish mockups I've been making into a presentable shape. I've made a few versions of a future main screen I'd love to get some feedback on. 8)

Here's an early iteration, Version A.

Version A in record mode. (The blue ring is how much memory you have left to record in to.)

After some discussion internally, this resulted in Version B, where the text moved out onto the image and the record button moved into the sidebar beside the play and save screen button.

Then patrickrebstock, somewhat unintentionally, inspired me to try switching around some of the buttons to put the most-used ones on the left side. (Or the right side, if you check that checkbox in Prefs. & Utilities.) I'm loosely preferential to the easy thumb reach in this version, though I think it was better organized in Version B. All the menus-buttons were on the right there, all the action-buttons were on the top.

Version C:

Anyway, if y'all have any thoughts, I'd love to hear them! I really need some feedback on my work - Krontech is nice, but there's only so many people I can bother here. ;)

Software Dev / Re: Updating the UI
« on: February 22, 2018, 09:44:10 PM »
No! I totally missed the edit. Thanks for pointing it out!


What a good video! This is really interesting, we do hold the camera differently. Your left thumb tends to be on the top, while I tend to put my left thumb on the bottom. 🤔

Thank you.

Software Dev / Re: Updating the UI
« on: February 15, 2018, 11:39:54 AM »
Thanks!  ;D

Software Dev / Re: Updating the UI
« on: February 15, 2018, 10:01:31 AM »
Which now that I think about it means the buttons should be on the left, not the right; but when on a tripod we may want the buttons on the right as most of us are right-handed... maybe a setting to choose between the two options?

We've got this working on an internal build, now. :D


@patrickrebstock, I'm not sure I understand the significance of your last post. It's just a quote of me?


In other news, I've had a look at the trigger settings screen. This is just a mockup - nothing's implemented yet as usual.

Current version:

Redesigned version:

I need to chat with a graphics designer at some point, I feel. My version feels quite plain.

Software Dev / Re: Updating the UI
« on: February 09, 2018, 03:46:14 PM »
I dont think i agree about making the timeline horizontal its way better where it is for right handed one handed control, i just played around with it and keeping it where it is seems better, but still think right and left arrows even with a vertical timeline is still way more intuitive
Hm, that's two votes for left-and-right, now. Maybe I will have to change it back. ???

I'm not entirely sure the interface should be designed to be one-handed at all. Playing around with it, trying to use the interface when I'm just holding the camera unsupported in my right hand, I have serious difficulty interacting with the thing. It's pretty hefty.  I need it propped up by my left hand, or screwed onto a tripod or something before I can use it. In both cases, I can pretty easily access the bottom few centimeters of the screen.

Could you show me how you were holding it? :D That'd be really useful.


Software Dev / Re: Updating the UI
« on: February 09, 2018, 02:42:20 PM »
How hard would it be to allow the user to select which buttons we want and how they're arranged?
It would be possible, at least. It's a good idea - it would be very nice to let people just have the half-dozen buttons they regularly use on screen. Designing the UI to let us design the UI would be difficult for us. Still, it would be miiiighty nice if it worked...

I've noticed Nikon does something similar. They let you set what buttons do in a menu, so you can customize them and bring certain behaviors to the front. Since we have a touch screen instead of buttons, we could probably do better. :)

Nikon custom settings on a mid-range camera.

Having all the buttons on each screen by default, then allowing the user to remove the buttons they don't need frequently and make them accessible through a "menu" button would work well.
We've been considering a 'simple mode' here, which would remove a lot of the more esoteric buttons. Simple mode would have the buttons you needed to get started and get some cool slow-motion shots, but wouldn't have a lot of the more advanced measurement stuff - like typing in exposure, frame rate, etc. It would be a lot more intuitive to get started with. What we've got now would become 'scientific mode' (or something), and would have all the numbers in it for when you needed precision and timing. In scientific mode, we wouldn't have to worry so much about how intuitive it was to use, or how pretty it was, rather that you could tweak everything how you need it. :)

I think the seek bar should be customizeable as well - either at the bottom or on the right. Some users shoot with a 4:3 or square frame (scientific applications) and for them the seek bar on the right gives more real estate for the video frame. I mostly shoot in letterbox type frames so a seek bar on the bottom would work for me, but again, not for everyone.
I was considering having the seek bar automatically choosing the best location, based on the aspect ratio of your video. But I think it might be confusing to have the UI just -change- on you like that... Say, what would you think of pinch-to-zoom on the video playback screen, like with photos on a cellphone? Would that work? :D

As for the jog wheel, in the playback menu it has a function, maybe in the record menu it could be clicked to switch between exposure and frame rate, then rotated to change these? with perhaps press and turn for faster changes?

Alternatively, for users with gloves the jog wheel could be assigned strictly to cycling between buttons by turning, and pressing buttons by pressing. This would allow use without the touch screen.
Ohh, that's a good use-case! We hadn't thought of that! ... I'd really like to make the entire user interface usable via the jog wheel, I think.  Click to enter a control, spin to increase it, click again to exit. That sort of thing. However, it'll require somewhat careful design to make it usable, because you have to be able to guess what order the wheel will select the controls in.

yeah realize it might need some work for rewriting the jog wheel code but i think its worth it because it is such a good control and it doesn't require the touchscreen for water-housing and when you have a loupe on the screen and cant touch it
Absolutely agreed. Almost no matter how bad the wheel controls are, if they are functional, it'll be easier than having to take a case off every dang time you need to make an adjustment.

Software Dev / Re: Updating the UI
« on: February 08, 2018, 04:04:18 PM »
i still think that right and left arrows for going though playback footage is better than up and down more logical for a video timeline
I agree. The timeline should be horizontal then, though. If we move the timeline to the bottom, we'd definitely change the seek arrows to left and right. I would like to move the timeline to the bottom, because it's more conventional and it would make for more accurate seeking. 800px of sensitivity vs 480px.

i think that the jog dial needs to control more things, I want it to be able to tab between onscreen dialog pop-up boxes and then select an option, like the "start recording anyway and discard popup", it should be able to move the highlighted option by turning left and right and enter the selection by a press in.
But more important it should be able to, with a press-in and turn it should be able to change the shutter speed while the camera is recording or in standby. this would be epic
Yeah! That would be great!  :D

(Code-wise, the jog wheel is currently read in in this file, which I don't understand very well. It appears to *always* used to adjust the current frame in the "play" view. So you can adjust the current playback frame, even when you're not in the playback view. ::) )

Software Dev / Updating the UI
« on: February 07, 2018, 11:18:21 PM »
Hello, all. David hired me a few days back to improve our UI. (This includes the lack of a mobile app.) I've been getting my bearings with the software, and I've mocked up few screens I'd like to get some feedback on. Nothing's final yet; I'm still learning my way around the project and figuring out how to change things. :)

Main Screen:
  • I've made all the font sizes on the main menu the same. I think it looks a lot better, but it's also harder to read. I'm going to try to move some things around later to make the buttons a lot larger and more legible.
  • I've added "..." to buttons that open up a menu. Is this something you yourself would reasonably expect "..." to mean?
  • I reordered the buttons on the main screen. All the settings are together at the bottom now!
  • Changed "Play" to "Review and Save". (It could as easily be "Play and Save". I didn't think you'd intuitively look under "Play" to save your work. 🤔
  • Aligned all the things.

Play Screen:
  • Mostly just changed around the arrows here. Up/down now move the slider up and down. Plus and minus adjust the speed of the up and down. Much more sensible than having up and down adjust the speed of left and right. :D
  • Not that it's quite in yet, but "mark in" and "mark out" will become more like "mark a" and "mark b". Regardless of which is first, when you save, it'll just take the segment between the two. We'd like to get actual marks drawing on the slider as well.

Anyway, that's it for now! Thanks for reading!

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