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Chronos User Discussion / Re: Post Chronos 2.1 clips here!
« on: August 22, 2021, 05:51:49 AM »Here's a shot heavily backlitI dont know why, but those shots remind me so much of the general Feel of those early Camera Demo Videos on YT ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJ76JFeu-I ), where People just had Fun, shot some great stuff and Shared that. Could be The music on the First one or something, idk. Either Way, great footage, thanks very much for sharing.
https://vimeo.com/590540146
pw: 1000
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Chronos User Discussion / Re: Post Chronos 2.1 clips here!
« on: August 21, 2021, 08:19:44 AM »Hi lovely chronos people! I received my 2.1 and have finally had a chance to test it (a toddler and a new born make it tough!) Meanwhile, my family are wonderful test subjects heheDamn, thats some nice Footage you got there! I didnt come across the term "depressing hipster music" so far, but it somehow fits the thing and really adds to it, well done.
Anyway, I'm really happy with the camera so far. The dynamic range is seriously lacking but the quality overall is pretty amazing for the price. Here is a bunch of shots cut to depressing hipster music and there's not much fast action stuff in there but my goal is use it as part of my kit for TVC production.
https://vimeo.com/590171021
PW: 1000
Just curious, if that was all Natural Light (talking about the indoor Shots) or if you added any Lighting to those shots? Also wondering what lens you used for that.
Wish you the best with your new camera!
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Chronos User Discussion / Re: Post Chronos 2.1 clips here!
« on: August 21, 2021, 07:57:55 AM »Without a color chart to create an accurate LUT with your lighting, it's just from what "looks good".I actually did that, just bought an Color Checker because that was bothering me too much (also because of that other Discussion over there with Iwaters), just didnt have time yet to post that. So here it is anyways, together with my second Try at Editing that. Color Checker Shot with the Same Lighting i had for the Original Shot. I did Use The Color Checker (DNG Provided as Attachment, also the Export file from Resolve as well as an PNG Framegrab from that file) to get the image corrected, and then just tried to match the Color of the Nikon Shot as Close As possible with some smaller Color Adjustments. They still dont match perfectly, but they are reasonable close, where i can call it an Acceptable result for my Standards.
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#EDIT:
I just noticed that Resolve for some Reason Exported the File too dark, so i did Render it again with different Settings, and reuploaded the Files.
/EDIT
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Chronos User Discussion / Re: How does the Color Matrix work?
« on: August 20, 2021, 03:00:50 PM »You're absolutely right, I find myself underexposing often. Even when I am pushing to where I am seeing zebra lines and backing off slightly, it still doesn't seem right. I don't have an external monitor for it (yet). When you're adjusting exposure with your monitor, what are you basing your correct exposure off of? Or how are you obtaining proper exposure?Still dont have time to write an full Reply/ Explanation about Exposure/Color rn, but can give a little update.
I'm still on this color correcting adventure and have been attempting to calibrate using an xrite passport II but can't seem to get it to where our numbers match up to their given color checker hue values (even after running it through the xrite color calibration software). I just want to make sure we are balancing correctly, it is of the essence for this project we're working on.
Xrite's customer service has been dismal. Would you happen to have any advice?
I got myself one of those Color Checker Passport Photo II (after ordering i noticed, that they also have a Passport Video one, i just assumed it is the Photo one you have, you didnt mention it, which one it was), just to see what you are dealing with here and also to improve my own color Workflow. So far i usually got away with a lot of guesswork and doing whatever i felt looked right, and was lucky to have worked with Cameras that apparently where close enough in terms of color so far, that this never was a Problem. With the Chronos 2.1 however, i think i really need to learn proper Color Work/ Management to improve my Results further (see my last post on the 2.1 Footage Thread for example).
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@mklinger:
Thanks for posting that Link, didnt watch the full thing, but helped me understand color work in Resolve a bit better. While this is for sure a great video in general, i dont think this fully covers what Iwaters wants to know. Most of those kinds of Tutorials are (sadly) very focused on Skintones and things like that, which i get why they would be Important for Cinematic Purposes and i also know how hard it can be to get them Right. So its fair to talk about them. But from what i understand from Iwaters, is that its more about getting the Overall Color as Close as Possible to "Real World" color. .
@Iwaters:
regards X-Rite customer Service, well, i went to read up and Look around their website a bunch, and it seems like they Offer Training&Seminars, which they charge you money for.
https://www.xrite.com/learning-color-education/training
So alone from that Fact, and the Fact that they list most of the Color-Checker Products on their Website as "Experience Level - Advanced" under the Tab Specifications:
https://www.xrite.com/categories/calibration-profiling/colorchecker-passport-video
I assume that the are not all that much about spending hours explaining you "basic" Stuff (depending on what you asked them, but i guess they consider that very basic knowledge) via Phone/ Mail or something like that for free. I think they would probably help you out, if you came at them with some very specific Advanced Questions (Transformations of/to obscure Colorspaces, software compatibility, ect.), but they will most likely not spend the time to explain the basic things to every olīdude with a camera that is trying to figure out why his colors look kinda strange.
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Regards color in general, i have to say, it is VERY Complex and quite hard to understand, but i am Trying to break it down as much as possible here. I am no where near even understanding a Fraction of color science that there is, nor am i any kind of expert in this field. I feel like no where near competent enough to explain this, but i am gonna try anyways to the Extent i understand it.
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First off, you need to understand, that there is "Real World Color", meaning the actual Properties of Surfaces/objects that respond to light in a certain way, letting you see whatever color they then seem to be. Then there is Light, which influences whatever those Colors Look like by a lot. Then there is also the Viewer or Camera observing the whole situation. As an Extreme Example take Color-Blind People, who cant see certain Colors. Its Like that, but not quite as bad with digital cameras. Digital Cameras can currently not capture every color (/Saturation Value) there is, also Dynamic Range is Limited to less than there is present quite often in Every day Situations. That means, whatever Color is Captured by the Camera is already not matching the Full Spectral Range that is Present in Reality anyways (for the Moment Ignoring Lighting). Then there is Color Spaces Also, meaning you now also need to Consider that even if you were to correctly map your Image To real World Colors Perfectly somehow, you would still run out of color Space in most Situations eventually (depending on Color Space ofc, but talking about sRGB f.Example). So you will have to make Compromises eventually to display the best Result for whatever the Usecase might be (for Cinema usually Aesthetics, so its usually not always technically correct Color).
All in all a quit Complex topic, and those Trainings X-Rite offers are actually quite justified, because there is just a lot to it, to be explained, if you really want to get into it and understand it well.
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For the Absolute Basics, i highly recommend you to check out these two Papers by x-Rite, and Study them Closely, as i assume that this is quite a bit of the info they would throw at you in those Trainings in the first Hour or two anyways.
I dont know about your general Level of Knowledge about Color (maybe you even know more than me by now or something), but i can just say, these Infos are what its about, if you want to understand whats going on. Cant explain any of that stuff even half as good as they do there: https://www.xritephoto.com/documents/literature/en/L11-176_Guide_to_CM_en.pdf
https://xritephoto.com/documents/literature/en/L11-029_color_guide_EN.pdf
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About your Color Values not lining up perfectly with the theoretical Color Checker Values:
https://xritephoto.com/documents/literature/en/ColorData-1p_EN.pdf
Well, for one try playing around with White Balance, that should already change them quite a bit, and also Tint (green-Magenta adjustment of White Balance).
Otherwise, even if Whitebalance is as Close as you are gonna get it, it will probably still be off at least by a little bit most of the time, because if you just hard Mapped it to the Chart sometimes it would look strange, so it goes a little easy on it to make it look somewhat natural. But the WB-Adjustment should already get you close, use the Methods shown in the Video mklinger Linked to fine adjust your image if you want to get it to actually mach the Colors (can go into some more detail later, if you want on how to do that).
Other thing i came across, while trying to figure out my own Color Workflow, was this Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHGicvsdwWI
Now, i have actually not watched this video, just clicked through it while muted, to figure out, you need to actually find some hidden button in Resolve to set a mask for those Color Charts.
I literally just Searched for "resolve 17 color match x-rite" on YT, and this was the First thing that came up, after spending way too much time almost loosing my mind trying to figure out why my colors would go absolutely crazy when just pressing "match", and about to give up with Resolve at that point (like seriously, why is that hidden like that? I was seriously in Doubt if Resolve can actually even color Match those Charts, or considering if i was just dumb or something, even spent quite a bunch of time trying the Same thing with a bunch of file Formats and eventually a bunch of different Cameras, just in case. Would have taken ages to figure that one out on my own, and would have probably given up trying before finding out how to do that...).
But this Video also seems to go into detail on how to expose correctly with Color Charts like that one (there seems to be a ton of Videos just like this coming up as recommended when you watch that, so feel free to watch a bunch, maybe one of them will help), so you could watch that/ those until i am able to try my best explaining what i know about this/ Specific to the Chronos.
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I think we talked about this very Problem with Color Matching a Real Life Situation via Mail before, but dont quite remember, where we ended that Conversation, been a while. I also dont quite remember your requirements anymore, but it seemed of Technical Nature, not Cinematic (i think to remember that you never went into too much detail about your usecase or specific Requirements, so if confidential, just try to describe the Desired Result in terms of Color/Saturation/ect. as close as possible without going into too much detail about your Project.).
Was about maxing out Saturation on colors or something like that back then, if i remember Correctly...?
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As i already said, i dont know your current Level of knowledge or your usecase or field of work, but if you want to go deep into color Science, check this link out (from what i know, this still uses the old Color-Checker Values, which got changed 2014 or something like that, so watch out for that, if you have a newer Color Checker):
https://www.imatest.com/docs/plain/colorcheck.html#:~:text=The%20GretagMacbeth%20ColorChecker%20is%20an%208%20x%2011%22,controlled%20pigments.%20Patches%20have%20a%20smooth%20matte%20surface.
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Software Dev / Re: Will there ever be a 100,000 FPS version again?
« on: August 20, 2021, 01:13:22 PM »I can confirm that those changes alone aren't enough to get faster speeds on the 2.1. I have a feeling there are potentially changes in the sensor files that might do it, but I haven't played around more than to confirm that these changes aren't enough. Maybe Sanjay can help point us in the right direction to play around with???Sorry for the late Reply, but as far as i understand what you are saying in those last three posts, is that at least setting/changing those Preset Resolutions in the Drop-Down list are easy to do with this method, which is great.
One thing I did find, which is pretty awesome, is the location to change the default resolution settings that show up in the drop down menu.
If you follow all of the steps Sanjay outlined above, you can just:
cd /var/camera
and edit the plain text file called "resolutions"
You don't even need to rebuild or re-install as that file is dynamically read when you go to the Record Settings page. Nice!!
Wanted to have a way to change them in the Firmware since a while, and also think i wrote that on the Forum before somewhere (not sure tho) already. While this is a little more work for the user than if you could just do that via the UI itself, its nice, to know, that there is now a way to do that at least for those that want to.
For me it will probably be a bunch of Framerate-Options at 1080p/720p HD Resoutions, which i often find myself using, and while i am at it, maybe also add at least some of your custom Resolutions for maximizing Gigapixel Throughput, in case i need them at some point.
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Regards the described Mod not working for the 2.1, i kind of expected that, as i wrote in my reply, because these Changes that are made here, seem Sensor-Specific, so, even if everything else would be the Same, i would assume that i would at least have to change the Sensor Name to (would have to look the 2.1 Sensor Name/ model number up...) for the 2.1 for this to work.
However, did you already get the Full Datasheet/ any Updates on that yet?
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And Yes, i fully agree on that, anyone using that Mod should do that on a Spare/ Backup OS microSD card, so in case you mess up somehow, you can still use your Camera.
Will do the Same thing, but i am currently out of empty/ Spare Cards, and ordered a bunch more for stuff like that (i like to keep a bunch of old versions and the Current one around installed on its own card each, so all of them are full right now).
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Thanks for testing and Posting that anyways!
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Chronos User Discussion / Re: I am a professional colorist & would like to try improving your raw footage
« on: August 14, 2021, 07:37:54 PM »
@Pritchboxer:
If you are still around, would be nice if you could have a look at this:
https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=521.msg4609#msg4609
Cant figure out why the Reds Look THAT strange on the Chronos Shot, maybe you can give a Statement on whats wrong with them.
For the Yellows i have a bit of a guess myself, but would still be happy to hear what you have to say about them.
If you are still around, would be nice if you could have a look at this:
https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=521.msg4609#msg4609
Cant figure out why the Reds Look THAT strange on the Chronos Shot, maybe you can give a Statement on whats wrong with them.
For the Yellows i have a bit of a guess myself, but would still be happy to hear what you have to say about them.
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Chronos User Discussion / Re: Post Chronos 2.1 clips here!
« on: August 14, 2021, 07:22:22 PM »
I just now started wondering if i could recreate that "Still Life" Shot with an other Camera and tried to do that with my Nikon D500. Needed To use a Different Lens on the Nikon D500, so image isnt absolutely identical, but quite Close.
Framing of the Shot also doesnt line up perfectly, so i attached an Edited JPG Version of the Nikon Shot (edited using Nikons free RAW-Tool Capture NX-D, to match the Look of the Shot From the Chronos as closely as possible) and a Cropped version, to overlay directly over the original Chronos Shot to match as closely in Framing as i was able to make it fit. Also Attached is an PNG Framegrab of the Edited Video from Above.
Yellows are a bit different (saturation?) and Reds actually look strange on my edit compared to the Nikon Image.
Framing of the Shot also doesnt line up perfectly, so i attached an Edited JPG Version of the Nikon Shot (edited using Nikons free RAW-Tool Capture NX-D, to match the Look of the Shot From the Chronos as closely as possible) and a Cropped version, to overlay directly over the original Chronos Shot to match as closely in Framing as i was able to make it fit. Also Attached is an PNG Framegrab of the Edited Video from Above.
Yellows are a bit different (saturation?) and Reds actually look strange on my edit compared to the Nikon Image.
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Software Dev / Re: Chronos V0.6.0 Full Release
« on: August 14, 2021, 03:48:01 PM »Here is an untouched DNG Sequence (Heavily Compressed With 7Zip) directly from the 2.1, that shows this Banding i talked about above in Motion. Watch for the Reflection on the Hammer and how it affects the Background. Shot at 0db 1kfps, 180° on an Schneider-Kreuznach Tele-Xenar 75mm/2.8 (was a bit stopped down, not exactly sure where i put the Apperture at...). This Short bit of Footage also shows Ghosting, where the Hammer Moves Fast, there is a "Ghost" Exposure of the Overexposed Highlight Visible, which disappears, when it suddenly stops. The Ghosting was allready there in the Previous Version, and wasnt really a Problem Ever for me, but still wanted to point it out, as i now finaly have footage which shows it very well; but the "Horizontal Banding" isnt that nice, and i dont remember it beeing that visible bevore.
Ran into this Ghosting issue again last Weekend, when i had a Shoot, where we Tried to Shoot a Water Drop Silhouette on a Black Background. There it was a pretty big Problem.
Requirements for the Final Shot were a Black Seamless Background, and only the Drop (/spot where the Drop hits the Surface/ resulting Waves) or its silhouette visible.
Did a Proof of Concept shot on the 0.6.0 Firmware @1kfps, and it just looked completely unusable, immediately switched to 0.5.1Unstable, and it was about as bad.
Ghosting was about the same or a bit less on the Unstable 5.1 Build, but at least the banding was way less visible.
Ghosting seems to become really nasty and bad, if Image is basically solid Black and some Overexposed or at least extremely bright spots moving very fast relative in comparison to Framerate (what that shot was all about).
Did the Rest of that shoot on the 5.1 Unstable Firmware, and eventually switched to 2.1kfps, as Motion blur was a bit much anyways, where it was still noticeable there, but way less prominent/ distracting.
As Ghosting seems to be about the Same on both Versions and thus still relevant, i thought i might as well share it here for future improvement.
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Attached is an Render of the First Proof-Of-Concept Shot i did (sadly cant share any final Shots here, lighting was changed a bit later) on 5.1 Unstable, and some Untouched DNG Frames from the Same Shot.
For the Render i didnt even Bother to do any further editing, grading or denoising, its mostly just an DNG-Conversion to MP4, to be small enough to be posted here as an Entire Sequence.
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Settings Must have been 1000fps/0dB and something between 180° and 130° Shutter, but i didnt take any notes about it that day, so cant say for sure about the Shutter Speed.
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Chronos User Discussion / Re: Post Chronos 2.1 clips here!
« on: August 14, 2021, 02:13:52 PM »
"Still Life"
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Shot as an attempt to provide a Sequence of High Quality untouched DNG frames to the Community, so even people without a Chronos can have a play with some nice RAW Footage (Chronos Owners are welcome to do so as well of course).
This Short Sequence is trying to show what the Chronos 2.1 is capable of capturing in decent Light, and also an exercise for me to improve my color workflow with Resolve.
Attached to the Post is a Short Sequence of 7 Untouched DNG Frames straight from the Camera, as well as what i was able to make with them in Post Production (Resolve) as an High Bitrate .mp4. (Resolve for some reason cant even export as .png or anything like that, which is kind of disappointing..)
Result is obviously still visibly Limited by the Amount of Light i have available at the Moment (had the Lens almost wide open, so its not as sharp as it could be. Shot at about f/1.3) and also my current Skills with the Camera, but still about the Cleanest i am able to produce for now.
Fairly happy with the Result i was able to get from Color Correction/ Grading in Resolve, apart from the reds still looking kind of strange to me (but i have not yet figured out why that is). But i am no professional Colorist or anything, so i just processed it to a look i liked. If you think you can do a better Edit, feel Free to share it here.
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I also didnt have any vibrant blue Fruits or anything, so i just put an old SD Card there, so the image would have a nice range of color in it.
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Shot as an attempt to provide a Sequence of High Quality untouched DNG frames to the Community, so even people without a Chronos can have a play with some nice RAW Footage (Chronos Owners are welcome to do so as well of course).
This Short Sequence is trying to show what the Chronos 2.1 is capable of capturing in decent Light, and also an exercise for me to improve my color workflow with Resolve.
Attached to the Post is a Short Sequence of 7 Untouched DNG Frames straight from the Camera, as well as what i was able to make with them in Post Production (Resolve) as an High Bitrate .mp4. (Resolve for some reason cant even export as .png or anything like that, which is kind of disappointing..)
Result is obviously still visibly Limited by the Amount of Light i have available at the Moment (had the Lens almost wide open, so its not as sharp as it could be. Shot at about f/1.3) and also my current Skills with the Camera, but still about the Cleanest i am able to produce for now.
Fairly happy with the Result i was able to get from Color Correction/ Grading in Resolve, apart from the reds still looking kind of strange to me (but i have not yet figured out why that is). But i am no professional Colorist or anything, so i just processed it to a look i liked. If you think you can do a better Edit, feel Free to share it here.
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I also didnt have any vibrant blue Fruits or anything, so i just put an old SD Card there, so the image would have a nice range of color in it.
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Chronos User Discussion / Re: Post Chronos 2.1 clips here!
« on: August 13, 2021, 02:28:54 PM »
Something like an Making Of of the Above Fire Clip, shot at 1000fps.
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Chronos User Discussion / Re: Post Chronos 2.1 clips here!
« on: August 11, 2021, 06:50:25 AM »
Just some Flames.
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Chronos User Discussion / Re: How does the Color Matrix work?
« on: August 10, 2021, 06:36:20 AM »
I am extremely busy right now, so i cant really answer in detail, but will try to reply in 1 or 2 Weeks and give a little info about i work with Histograms.
If urgent, try to look up any Photoshop Tutorial about Histograms (Levels) or any other Image Editing Software, also Tutorials on exposure in general.
I am pretty sure, there is plenty good material about that online already to look at to learn about it in general.
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For the meantime just a question for you, have you been able to produce whatever color profile/look /color result you are looking go get with any other camera so far, if yes, can you post any sample image from that /with that look/ Settings applied?
If urgent, try to look up any Photoshop Tutorial about Histograms (Levels) or any other Image Editing Software, also Tutorials on exposure in general.
I am pretty sure, there is plenty good material about that online already to look at to learn about it in general.
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For the meantime just a question for you, have you been able to produce whatever color profile/look /color result you are looking go get with any other camera so far, if yes, can you post any sample image from that /with that look/ Settings applied?
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Chronos User Discussion / Re: FAULTY HARDWARE? Can't use any of the 832 x XXXX resolutions at my 2.1
« on: July 30, 2021, 11:00:21 AM »
just wondering if there are any updates on this? Is it indeed Hardware, or just Software?
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Software Dev / Re: Will there ever be a 100,000 FPS version again?
« on: July 30, 2021, 07:59:13 AM »
While i am not all that good with code itself, i am also very aware of how most of the Compression Codecs work, at least on an "surface" level, not down to the Last details. Read up a bunch of stuff about it over time. It really isnt optimized for Tiny resolutions, so support for such can be pretty bad. Never wrote any code for a camera or something like this, but had to export /import a bunch of very weird resolution Files to various Editing Software at some point, and that was quite a problem allready. From What i have seen, H.264 also doesnt seem to like absurdly extreme Aspect ratios all that much, which may also be a Problem here.
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And yes, If you can have a play with it and give some info about if that even works on the 2.1, that would be great, so i know if its worth putting my time into even trying to getting it to run on mine. Thanks!
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And yes, If you can have a play with it and give some info about if that even works on the 2.1, that would be great, so i know if its worth putting my time into even trying to getting it to run on mine. Thanks!