Author Topic: Updating the UI  (Read 786 times)

DDR

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Updating the UI
« on: February 07, 2018, 11:18:21 PM »
Hello, all. David hired me a few days back to improve our UI. (This includes the lack of a mobile app.) I've been getting my bearings with the software, and I've mocked up few screens I'd like to get some feedback on. Nothing's final yet; I'm still learning my way around the project and figuring out how to change things. :)



Main Screen:
  • I've made all the font sizes on the main menu the same. I think it looks a lot better, but it's also harder to read. I'm going to try to move some things around later to make the buttons a lot larger and more legible.
  • I've added "..." to buttons that open up a menu. Is this something you yourself would reasonably expect "..." to mean?
  • I reordered the buttons on the main screen. All the settings are together at the bottom now!
  • Changed "Play" to "Review and Save". (It could as easily be "Play and Save". I didn't think you'd intuitively look under "Play" to save your work. 🤔
  • Aligned all the things.



Play Screen:
  • Mostly just changed around the arrows here. Up/down now move the slider up and down. Plus and minus adjust the speed of the up and down. Much more sensible than having up and down adjust the speed of left and right. :D
  • Not that it's quite in yet, but "mark in" and "mark out" will become more like "mark a" and "mark b". Regardless of which is first, when you save, it'll just take the segment between the two. We'd like to get actual marks drawing on the slider as well.


Anyway, that's it for now! Thanks for reading!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 11:20:40 PM by DDR »

patrickrebstock

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2018, 02:17:29 PM »
i still think that right and left arrows for going though playback footage is better than up and down more logical for a video timeline

i think that the jog dial needs to control more things, I want it to be able to tab between onscreen dialog pop-up boxes and then select an option, like the "start recording anyway and discard popup", it should be able to move the highlighted option by turning left and right and enter the selection by a press in.
But more important it should be able to, with a press-in and turn it should be able to change the shutter speed while the camera is recording or in standby. this would be epic


DDR

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2018, 04:04:18 PM »
i still think that right and left arrows for going though playback footage is better than up and down more logical for a video timeline
I agree. The timeline should be horizontal then, though. If we move the timeline to the bottom, we'd definitely change the seek arrows to left and right. I would like to move the timeline to the bottom, because it's more conventional and it would make for more accurate seeking. 800px of sensitivity vs 480px.

i think that the jog dial needs to control more things, I want it to be able to tab between onscreen dialog pop-up boxes and then select an option, like the "start recording anyway and discard popup", it should be able to move the highlighted option by turning left and right and enter the selection by a press in.
But more important it should be able to, with a press-in and turn it should be able to change the shutter speed while the camera is recording or in standby. this would be epic
Yeah! That would be great!  :D

(Code-wise, the jog wheel is currently read in in this file, which I don't understand very well. It appears to *always* used to adjust the current frame in the "play" view. So you can adjust the current playback frame, even when you're not in the playback view. ::) )

patrickrebstock

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 05:04:41 PM »
i still think that right and left arrows for going though playback footage is better than up and down more logical for a video timeline
I agree. The timeline should be horizontal then, though. If we move the timeline to the bottom, we'd definitely change the seek arrows to left and right. I would like to move the timeline to the bottom, because it's more conventional and it would make for more accurate seeking. 800px of sensitivity vs 480px.

i think that the jog dial needs to control more things, I want it to be able to tab between onscreen dialog pop-up boxes and then select an option, like the "start recording anyway and discard popup", it should be able to move the highlighted option by turning left and right and enter the selection by a press in.
But more important it should be able to, with a press-in and turn it should be able to change the shutter speed while the camera is recording or in standby. this would be epic
Yeah! That would be great!  :D

(Code-wise, the jog wheel is currently read in in this file, which I don't understand very well. It appears to *always* used to adjust the current frame in the "play" view. So you can adjust the current playback frame, even when you're not in the playback view. ::) )
I dont think i agree about making the timeline horizontal its way better where it is for right handed one handed control, i just played around with it and keeping it where it is seems better, but still think right and left arrows even with a vertical timeline is still way more intuitive 

gyppor

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 06:20:48 PM »
How hard would it be to allow the user to select which buttons we want and how they're arranged? For example, I will typically shoot in one location for several hours, so I don't need the WB button to be on the main screen. However, I'm always changing resolutions and frame rates, so I like the black cal button to be on the main screen as I use it all the time. But other users might have a different work flow. 

Trying to find a one-size-fits-all UI will be tough as everyone works differently; customization will alow you to keep everyone happy.

Having all the buttons on each screen by default, then allowing the user to remove the buttons they don't need frequently and make them accessible through a "menu" button would work well.

I think the seek bar should be customizeable as well - either at the bottom or on the right. Some users shoot with a 4:3 or square frame (scientific applications) and for them the seek bar on the right gives more real estate for the video frame. I mostly shoot in letterbox type frames so a seek bar on the bottom would work for me, but again, not for everyone.

As for the jog wheel, in the playback menu it has a function, maybe in the record menu it could be clicked to switch between exposure and frame rate, then rotated to change these? with perhaps press and turn for faster changes?

Alternatively, for users with gloves the jog wheel could be assigned strictly to cycling between buttons by turning, and pressing buttons by pressing. This would allow use without the touch screen.


patrickrebstock

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2018, 08:41:53 PM »
i still think that right and left arrows for going though playback footage is better than up and down more logical for a video timeline
I agree. The timeline should be horizontal then, though. If we move the timeline to the bottom, we'd definitely change the seek arrows to left and right. I would like to move the timeline to the bottom, because it's more conventional and it would make for more accurate seeking. 800px of sensitivity vs 480px.

i think that the jog dial needs to control more things, I want it to be able to tab between onscreen dialog pop-up boxes and then select an option, like the "start recording anyway and discard popup", it should be able to move the highlighted option by turning left and right and enter the selection by a press in.
But more important it should be able to, with a press-in and turn it should be able to change the shutter speed while the camera is recording or in standby. this would be epic
Yeah! That would be great!  :D

(Code-wise, the jog wheel is currently read in in this file, which I don't understand very well. It appears to *always* used to adjust the current frame in the "play" view. So you can adjust the current playback frame, even when you're not in the playback view. ::) )
yeah realize it might need some work for rewriting the jog wheel code but i think its worth it because it is such a good control and it doesn't require the touchscreen for water-housing and when you have a loupe on the screen and cant touch it

DDR

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2018, 02:42:20 PM »
How hard would it be to allow the user to select which buttons we want and how they're arranged?
It would be possible, at least. It's a good idea - it would be very nice to let people just have the half-dozen buttons they regularly use on screen. Designing the UI to let us design the UI would be difficult for us. Still, it would be miiiighty nice if it worked...

I've noticed Nikon does something similar. They let you set what buttons do in a menu, so you can customize them and bring certain behaviors to the front. Since we have a touch screen instead of buttons, we could probably do better. :)


Nikon custom settings on a mid-range camera.


Having all the buttons on each screen by default, then allowing the user to remove the buttons they don't need frequently and make them accessible through a "menu" button would work well.
We've been considering a 'simple mode' here, which would remove a lot of the more esoteric buttons. Simple mode would have the buttons you needed to get started and get some cool slow-motion shots, but wouldn't have a lot of the more advanced measurement stuff - like typing in exposure, frame rate, etc. It would be a lot more intuitive to get started with. What we've got now would become 'scientific mode' (or something), and would have all the numbers in it for when you needed precision and timing. In scientific mode, we wouldn't have to worry so much about how intuitive it was to use, or how pretty it was, rather that you could tweak everything how you need it. :)


I think the seek bar should be customizeable as well - either at the bottom or on the right. Some users shoot with a 4:3 or square frame (scientific applications) and for them the seek bar on the right gives more real estate for the video frame. I mostly shoot in letterbox type frames so a seek bar on the bottom would work for me, but again, not for everyone.
I was considering having the seek bar automatically choosing the best location, based on the aspect ratio of your video. But I think it might be confusing to have the UI just -change- on you like that... Say, what would you think of pinch-to-zoom on the video playback screen, like with photos on a cellphone? Would that work? :D

As for the jog wheel, in the playback menu it has a function, maybe in the record menu it could be clicked to switch between exposure and frame rate, then rotated to change these? with perhaps press and turn for faster changes?

Alternatively, for users with gloves the jog wheel could be assigned strictly to cycling between buttons by turning, and pressing buttons by pressing. This would allow use without the touch screen.
Ohh, that's a good use-case! We hadn't thought of that! ... I'd really like to make the entire user interface usable via the jog wheel, I think.  Click to enter a control, spin to increase it, click again to exit. That sort of thing. However, it'll require somewhat careful design to make it usable, because you have to be able to guess what order the wheel will select the controls in.

yeah realize it might need some work for rewriting the jog wheel code but i think its worth it because it is such a good control and it doesn't require the touchscreen for water-housing and when you have a loupe on the screen and cant touch it
Absolutely agreed. Almost no matter how bad the wheel controls are, if they are functional, it'll be easier than having to take a case off every dang time you need to make an adjustment.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 02:45:10 PM by DDR »

DDR

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2018, 03:46:14 PM »
I dont think i agree about making the timeline horizontal its way better where it is for right handed one handed control, i just played around with it and keeping it where it is seems better, but still think right and left arrows even with a vertical timeline is still way more intuitive
Hm, that's two votes for left-and-right, now. Maybe I will have to change it back. ???

I'm not entirely sure the interface should be designed to be one-handed at all. Playing around with it, trying to use the interface when I'm just holding the camera unsupported in my right hand, I have serious difficulty interacting with the thing. It's pretty hefty.  I need it propped up by my left hand, or screwed onto a tripod or something before I can use it. In both cases, I can pretty easily access the bottom few centimeters of the screen.

Could you show me how you were holding it? :D That'd be really useful.

Thanks!

BiduleOhm

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2018, 11:24:25 AM »
I think a good compromise would be to move the slider at the bottom (so horizontal) with the two arrow buttons aligned with it at the bottom right (and the other buttons as they currently are on the right).

Pinch to zoom and drag to move would be awesome (especially to set the focus more easily) :)

I'm not entirely sure the interface should be designed to be one-handed at all. Playing around with it, trying to use the interface when I'm just holding the camera unsupported in my right hand, I have serious difficulty interacting with the thing. It's pretty hefty.  I need it propped up by my left hand, or screwed onto a tripod or something before I can use it. In both cases, I can pretty easily access the bottom few centimeters of the screen.

Yep, to me what you want is to be able to hold the camera with the right hand and use the UI with the left hand, you just can't use one hand to do both (and I would not want to anyway: too high risk to drop the camera...). Which now that I think about it means the buttons should be on the left, not the right; but when on a tripod we may want the buttons on the right as most of us are right-handed... maybe a setting to choose between the two options?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 11:26:23 AM by BiduleOhm »

patrickrebstock

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2018, 11:25:24 PM »
I dont think i agree about making the timeline horizontal its way better where it is for right handed one handed control, i just played around with it and keeping it where it is seems better, but still think right and left arrows even with a vertical timeline is still way more intuitive
Hm, that's two votes for left-and-right, now. Maybe I will have to change it back. ???

I'm not entirely sure the interface should be designed to be one-handed at all. Playing around with it, trying to use the interface when I'm just holding the camera unsupported in my right hand, I have serious difficulty interacting with the thing. It's pretty hefty.  I need it propped up by my left hand, or screwed onto a tripod or something before I can use it. In both cases, I can pretty easily access the bottom few centimeters of the screen.
i am holding the grip like you do but can have support of a tripod or a left hand for camera weight and the right thumb controls jog and all the touch screen funtions from that one thumb, scroll bar way easyier when vertical on right side to set in and out points fast


Could you show me how you were holding it? :D That'd be really useful.

Thanks!
sorry i think my post got deleted and it just showed the quote,
so im not holding and operating the camera with just one hand, usually its supported with the left hand on the left side of thecamera body or lens focusing  and the right hand it holding the right side and the right thumb does all of the touch controls and jog dial. easy for suporting the camera and setting in and out points fast before the next action

also on a tripod the right hand can do all the setting of in and out and save while the left is left to relax or hold your beer or control the screen if you really want to.
video showing this.
https://youtu.be/dL8oA3GjC-Y
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 08:12:41 PM by patrickrebstock »

DDR

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2018, 10:01:31 AM »
Which now that I think about it means the buttons should be on the left, not the right; but when on a tripod we may want the buttons on the right as most of us are right-handed... maybe a setting to choose between the two options?

We've got this working on an internal build, now. :D

---

@patrickrebstock, I'm not sure I understand the significance of your last post. It's just a quote of me?

---

In other news, I've had a look at the trigger settings screen. This is just a mockup - nothing's implemented yet as usual.

Current version:


Redesigned version:


I need to chat with a graphics designer at some point, I feel. My version feels quite plain.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 10:32:20 AM by DDR »

BiduleOhm

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 10:44:58 AM »
I like your version ;)

DDR

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 11:39:54 AM »
Thanks!  ;D

patrickrebstock

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2018, 04:21:55 PM »
Thanks!  ;D
just wodering if u saw my updated post with video and description of use

DDR

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Re: Updating the UI
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2018, 09:44:10 PM »
No! I totally missed the edit. Thanks for pointing it out!

-----

What a good video! This is really interesting, we do hold the camera differently. Your left thumb tends to be on the top, while I tend to put my left thumb on the bottom. 🤔

Thank you.