Author Topic: Chronos 2.1 vs 1.4 Sensor Size and Lenses, also Framerate  (Read 366 times)

Nikon1

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Chronos 2.1 vs 1.4 Sensor Size and Lenses, also Framerate
« on: December 28, 2019, 04:45:56 AM »
Since i still see so Much confusion about Sensor Sizes and Lenses with the 2.1 and 1.4 Chronos and if certain Lenses Would be compatible i felt the Need to Post this here.
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I First want to Add, if you need Further Information on such topics, go Visit Sites Like Wikipedia, where someone else already explained things Like that better and more in Detail, than i can be bothered to do here.
Here is some Links, to get you started with finding more Info if you want to:
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(Some of those are in german. If you dont understand, just look at the Images and use Some Translator, if you feel the need to...)
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https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formatfaktor#Formatfaktoren_g%C3%A4ngiger_Sensorgr%C3%B6%C3%9Fen_relativ_zum_Kleinbildformat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_view
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance
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Also, sorry in advance if any Bad English/ Grammar, since im not an native Speaker...
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So, How does all that Work?
There is Different Camera Sensor Sizes, some Historic Massive Large Formats, some More Reasonable Large Formats, The 35mm KB-Format "Kleinbild" which is also known as "Full-Frame" nowerdays a lot. And Then there is everything smaller than "Full-Frame", including most Interchangeable Lens Digital Cameras, Like Chronos Cameras, also a Lot of Modern Digital Cameras from Pro Level Mirroless to Small Sensor Phone Camera Sensors.
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Most vintage SLR Lenses Around are for the KB-Format or for the Smaller APS-C (a.k.a. DX-Format).
Most Vintage C-Mount Lenses are for the 1" (=Super16mm Cine) ; 2/3" (=Standard16mm Cine); 1/2" (=Super8mm Cine) Formats or sometimes even smaller formats, such as 1/3" (mostly CCTV-Stuff)
In general, with modern Mirrorless Digital Cameras, (including Chronos Cameras) a VERY wide variety of Lenses can be used on any camera.
In Terms of Mechanical Adapting, almost every lens ever made (except for some truly extreme and Strange ones) Can be mounted onto Chronos Cameras if you find a Way to securely attatch it to the camera.
But Sadly, you wont be able to just go and buy adapters for EVERY Lens in a Store, since the Chronos mounting System is one of the most Flexible, but not very common.
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So, can The Lenses which work well on the 1.4 be used on the new 2.1?

Yes and No...
Depends:
The 2.1 has an Sensor with twice the diagonal size than the 1.4 and therefor four times the Sensor Area!
That means, given you use the Full Sensor of the 2.1 at 1920x1080, Lenses from the 1.4 will not necessarily work well on the 2.1.
But what will happen when you use an 2/3" lens (from the 1.4) on an 4/3" Camera like the 2.1 Chronos?
Well, if the Lens is not Massively overbuilt, you will just get an small image in the Center of your frame in form of an Circle and everything around will be Black.
Size Of that circle depends on the Lens itself and whatever Format the creator intended it to be used with. That is Called Image Circle or Coverage if in relation to an special Format.
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So, Lenses from the 1.4 Chronos wont Work on the 2.1???
Well, they can be used. But as Said bevore, when the Whole Sensor / Resolution of the 2.1 is used, you will just end up with a Lot of your image being completely black and not containing any Information at all.
That said, things change a Lot if you get into higher Framerates with the 2.1
The Thing is, that Highspeed-Cameras kind of change Sensor Size with Resolution.
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Does the Sensor get Smaller then?
Well, of course not... physicaly...
But the Camera and Sensor electronics can just handle so much pixles per Second, so, if not all Pixels are Read out, the Camera can do a Lot more Frames Per Second (=Smaller Resolution, Higher Framerate, about same amount of Pixels per Second). And with that comes, that the Pixels around the ROI (Region of Interrest, This term is used on some Other Brand High-Speed Cameras instead of Resolution and in its own way very accurate) are just Ignored at higher Frameratest. That means that the effective Used Sensor Area does in fact get smaller. That also means, that if you make your sensor small enough, the Black Areas around the actual image will disapear.
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So the 2/3" lenses can be used on the 2.1 but are they usefull for anything then?
The higher your Framerate gets, the smaller the ROI gets. So, if you go far enough with that, even your Wide-Angle Lens on the 2.1 will become an telescope. Thats Where the Smaller Format Lenses are your only way to get very Wide Angle shots.
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So, What about C-Mount Lenses on the 2.1?
The Thing with C-Mount Lenses (and also CS-Mount Lenses) ist, that the vast majority of those are either built for Cinema-Cameras which use (about) 1" and 1/2" Formats and Industrial/CCTV-Lenses which use mostly also 1" and Smaller Formats. Dont get me wrong, there are quite some C-Mount-Lenses that will give Coverage (No black Areas/ Vignetting around the Image) on the 2.1 Chronos, but those are mostly either Low Image Quality or expensive and also rather rarely wide angle Lenses, a lot of them are tele or Normal Lenses, most of them are Prime Lenses (You cant Zoom with those!). As Said Bevore, there are some wide lenses, even Zooms in C-Mount that will cover the full 2.1 Sensor, but those are rare.
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So, what are The Alternatives to C-Mount Lenses On the 2.1
As we Learned, C-Mount Lenses mostly come for Formats Like 1" and 2/3", which is perfect for the 1.4 Chronos, but there are not tooo many Options for anything except Tele-Lenses for 2.1 Chronos, since it has an much bigger sensor.
So, Alternatives?
Well, there is, as Mentioned in the very beginning, vintage SLR-Glass and also Modern Glass for Modern Interchangeable Lens Cameras.
For the Most Popular Mounts you will find Adapters to C-Mount.
For Example Nikon-F-Mount to C-Mount adapters and Pentax-K-Mount to C-Mount adapters and some Other SLR- /DSLR- Mounts. Those will allow you to put for Example the wide Range Of Nikon Glass on your Chronos via the CS-Mount in the front of the Camera.
Be carefull though, some of the More Modern Lenses, such as Nikon-G-Style Lenses need an Adapter which is able to control the apperture, older Lenses will work with an more Simple Adapter.
In general all Vintage SLR- and DSLR- Lenses will cover and Fit both Chronos Cameras with no Problem as Long as An Proper Adapter is used.
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Well, it is very nice for you, that you have an insane Lighting Setup, but what do i do? SLR Lenses Are not that Fast...!
Once Again, with Old SLR- and DSLR- Glass we run into an other Problem. There are a Lot of Fast (Big Apperture, gives an Nice bright image and beautiful background blur, also you can shoot in "darker" (=normal Lit) Places) Portrait Lenses, but once you try to get an wide angle Lens, they are not that Fast anymore.... Most of those Super-Ultra-Wide Lenses (on the 2.1 or 1.4 those become Normal Wide Lenses) are not that good for Low Light or Fast Framerate Shooting or get *pretty* Pricey fast.
So, there is more Modern Glass, for DSLRs, Especialy for the APS-C Formats which is wider and Faster, while still being kind of affordable....
Still depends, those Lenses Will get you somewhat wide Angles at Reasonable Aperture, but still not that Fast and wide. If you want to go Fast, you are Still Stuck to using Primes.
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But i Want the Best Possible Lens, Wide And Fast, for the Full Sensor, also i NEED to Zoom!
Well, if you want to go Wide and/ or need an (actualy) Fast Zoom, there is almost no way around Modern Day Glass from Mirrorless-Camera systems.
Sadly quite some of those Lenses (MFT-Mount, Panasonic and Olympus Autofocus Lenses for examle) require rather Complex electronics inside of Camera or an adapter to work properly and are Therfor pretty hard to adapt.
But there are also a wide variety of Lenses that are Completely Manual, those dont need anything but an Mechanical Adapter. Also there are a Number of "Speed-Boosters" "Lens-Boosters" "Lens-Turbos" and so on, which will convert your somewhat good DSLR-Zoom-Lens into an really fast Zoom Lens, and also lets you get those Wide angels!
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That sounds Great, so, why isnt everyone allready doing just that?
The Most Compareable Format for the 2.1 Chronos would be The Digital Micro 3/4" Format and the Micro Four Thirds = MFT Mount. Those Lenses Can Be used On the Chronos, i tested that with NiNeff from The Forum a while Back with the 1.4 and an Selfmade Adapter, but there is no Adapter comercialy Available at that Point in Time sadly. Tesla500 = David in 2018-02-01 stated that he wants to make and Sell Adapters for MFT-Lenses and Speedboosters to Mount on the Chronos but i Guess he had too much to do with actually developing his cameras and stuff. I Posted An 3D-Printable MFT-Mount / Adapter for the 1.4 once, but cant find my own Post anymore, maybe need to Repost that. If someone Finds the Post, please Leave a Link below. Basicaly just find someone who knows stuff and can build you an Adapter if that is what you need. About as good as it gets would be the Speedbooster MFT Ultra 0.64x From Metabones, but that thing aint cheap...
I come quite some Way since i Posted that 3D-MFT-Mount (Btw. i never got any Feedback on that thing, so if someone actually tried this adapter, please Leave some Comment, so others will know if it works... it is built for the 1.4 but should also work on the 2.1, if it works at all. My Homemade Version worked at Least, and that one was built to the Same Specs, but with an Nikon1-Mirrorless Mount) and can now build an Proper Adapter from Metal for Myself, when i finaly get my 2.1.
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#EDIT: Found the Link for the 3D-Printable Mount, which i posted some time Earlier. It is to be found in this Topic here:
http://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=123.msg1205#msg1205
/EDIT#

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Will maybe post some More Images to Explain the Topic Further if i am in the Mood.

« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 11:32:46 PM by Nikon1 »

Nikon1

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Re: Chronos 2.1 vs 1.4 Sensor Size and Lenses, also Framerate
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2019, 05:00:36 AM »
Some Further Links about the Whole Adapting Lenses Thing (will be Edited, if i forgot any important ones) form the Forum:
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Adapting other lenses to C-mount
http://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=97.msg802#msg802
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http://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=464.msg2481#msg2481
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 http://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=97.msg802#msg802

marcus

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Re: Chronos 2.1 vs 1.4 Sensor Size and Lenses, also Framerate
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2019, 02:29:03 AM »
I feel like this needs to be a sticky haha. Thanks Nikon!