Author Topic: Improving the Jog Wheel, ideas.  (Read 1702 times)

Electra

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Re: Improving the Jog Wheel, ideas.
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2017, 03:06:32 AM »
I'd be happy with a simple 'click to change between fast and slow jog' however if you want to be more fancy, implement 'acceleration'.

Turn the knob fast. It moves a lot. Give it a flick and it may jump several thousands of frames. Turn the knob slow, it advances a single frame at time.
No need to select how many big you want your jump to be. I know a number of DSOs impliment theis on their control knobs and it's extremely intuitive to
use to the point where you only notice it when it's missing.
Edit: 'velocity control' is another name for this.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 05:32:11 AM by Electra »

BiduleOhm

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Re: Improving the Jog Wheel, ideas.
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2017, 04:26:14 AM »
The problem is that if it's not perfectly implemented and tuned it's a nightmare to use, but I have no doubts on the skills of David so I guess it's a good idea :)

Electra

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Re: Improving the Jog Wheel, ideas.
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2017, 05:36:47 AM »
Depending on the final feature set, 'velocity control on/off' could be a UI option, and on the same page allow the user to pick their 'fast' and 'slow' fixed amount if they wish?
I know I'm likely to find having to press the button, select my 'speed' then advance and then click to change it and advance closer each time to be quite annoying. However if velocity control turns out to be hated or hard to implement, I could likely adapt and live with it.

thebishop

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Re: Improving the Jog Wheel, ideas.
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2017, 08:35:45 AM »
I loved velocity control with my original iPod's, but the prerequisite is a control wheel that allow fine motor control (like the oversize iPod jog wheel) - not sure it would translate that well to the small knob on the Chronos, but worth trying out too...

jasonfish

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Re: Improving the Jog Wheel, ideas.
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2017, 10:01:24 AM »
In the end, it's actually quite good the way it is. Slide the slider, adjust the play speed, L and R arrows, adjust play speed again, roll dial back and forth. I'd be fine if it didn't change, but the "click to toggle through roll speeds" idea could be cool.

patrickrebstock

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Re: Improving the Jog Wheel, ideas.
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2017, 06:01:26 PM »
jog wheel for exposure  shutter speed changes during standby, or even while recording

aaronkondziela

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Re: Improving the Jog Wheel, ideas.
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2017, 05:07:23 PM »
For my part, I find the hold-and-turn feature of the jogwheel very natural and a great interface. It seemed weird at first, but I find it quite easy to give it a little heavier push at the edge of the knob, vs a ligher spin at the side, and it feels great.

In addition to that, the suggestions I see people put forth here would make some great additions.

And I agree with BiduleOhm on the tuning of acceleration on knobs... When done right it's amazingly great and useful, but I almost *never* like the feel of it. I would go for the configurable speeds and stuff before acceleration, for sure.

patrickrebstock

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Re: Improving the Jog Wheel, ideas.
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2018, 11:26:36 AM »
i would love to be able to just the jog wheel while recording to change the shutter angle to brighten or darken the image
also to use it to click on a popup window option, and jog back and forth on which option is selected

patrickrebstock

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Re: Improving the Jog Wheel, ideas.
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2018, 10:20:19 PM »
test this afternoon
the shot is close focused accidentally
cant wait for more jog wheel functionality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR4xdJvB3Y0&feature=youtu.be

John DeLonghi

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Re: Improving the Jog Wheel, ideas.
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2018, 03:11:39 AM »
I think it'll not be very pratical to select a value from a menu each time you want to switch it, I much prefer to set the values once and be able to switch between them with just a click.

Fair enough! Then I would suggest the following based on all the above:

Clicking the jogwheel will switch between the following speed settings:

- Single-step
- Slow
- Normal
- Fast

The textual representation of the currently selected speed would be displayed somewhere on screen during playback such that one gets feedback on what the current setting is when pressing the button.

The % settings for each such mode would have a reasonable set of defaults based on testing, but could optionally be fine-tuned in the camera settings somewhere if one wants to have more fine-control over those speeds.

Having those textual representations will make more sense to the average user, while still being able to be fine-tuned in camera settings if desired (to whatever granularity needed).

Good way to improve it.

rnighting

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Re: Improving the Jog Wheel, ideas.
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2018, 09:32:32 PM »
A good point of reference for jog wheel on hardware is the oscilloscope. It's been a standard input there for decades now, both for manipulating values and navigating menus. Some oscilloscope standards don't make as much sense for the camera (e.g. knob press to go to trigger time), but press to toggle/change selection and/or scroll speed both seem like natural UI options.

Press+hold is generally unwieldy, so I'm against that, but I could be on board with a long-press to open a meta-selection menu, then long press to exit selection menu. For navigating a video, for example, a long press would bring up a menu showing different speed selections you can choose from, but short pressing would immediately toggle between 2 (or the proposed 4). That would allow you to have some "quick" options, but also choose from all the options with minimal extra hassle.

As for the issue of #frames vs %buffer, in StepMania, speed is controlled in two ways that are directly comparable: fractions of the default, and constants/fixed speeds. Rather than offering a fixed number of both types, they instead let you select the mode type and number independently, kind of like units. So for the camera, you could be in 1 Frame mode, then change the units to % and now you're knob moves 1% of the buffer each click instead. This means your UI only needs 2 input fields to cover every possible combination.

I'm definitely not saying we should model everything after oscilloscopes or dance video games, but rather trying to provide examples where these sorts of problems also exist, and how their solutions might help inform the design for the camera.