KronTalk
Chronos => Software Dev => Topic started by: sanjay on September 01, 2021, 12:36:59 PM
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Hey Everyone,
We're happy to announce a new release of software for both the Chronos 1.4 and Chronos 2.1 cameras. This version will benefit owners of both models, as we have improved save speeds and reliability, as well as image quality on the 2.1.
We spent more time setting up image validation tests, and working with some of our users in the field to determine ideal settings for the Chronos 2.1 image sensor, so we hope the benefit is extended to you in this update.
Additionally, the Network Update option is available again, so this should be a fast and easy update for anyone on version 0.6.x. If you perform an update by connecting your camera to the internet via the Ethernet port, and then accessing the Network Update feature accessible through Util -> Storage -> Apply Software Update -> Check for Updates, you will not need to re-calibrate your camera to continue using it as long as you were previously on 0.6.x. You may still use the Network Update function to upgrade from 0.4 or 0.5, but please see the Calibration section of the Release Notes to verify correct re-calibration after the update.
I'll summarize the improvements and changes here, but please also see the official Release Notes here: https://www.krontech.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/RE-PDEV-10012-0.7.0-Release-Notes.pdf (https://www.krontech.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/RE-PDEV-10012-0.7.0-Release-Notes.pdf)
New Features and Improvements
Save Performance and Reliability:
- Save speed has been increased by up to 30%.
- Stability while saving has been greatly improved.
Trigger/IO Settings:
- Clarified some settings with "toggle" mode on the Trigger/IO screen. Now it
specifies that it's only for buttons/switches and settings that should not be
changed can't be changed when using this trigger function. - Trigger/IO screen now has a link to the trigger delay screen, and it will offer a
reminder when using triggers if the trigger delay is changed from default (in
case it was set accidentally).
Webpage Improvements:
- Webpage has “zero-time” black calibration support (accessible from the menu
at the top of the page). This feature allows for a fast black calibration to take
place without the need to physically cover the image sensor. - Option for 'Digital Gain' added to the Main Screen / Homepage.
- Some Chronos 2.1 color matrix options added to the webpage (for that camera).
Misc. Bug Fixes:
- ‘Black Cal All’ doesn't crash the camera if certain specific trigger modes are
used, nor will it set the trigger delay. - H.264 (mp4) files will not overwrite a previous file if a filename is provided
(instead, it gives a warning that the filename was already used).
Chronos 2.1 Image Quality:
- A previous software upgrade introduced a horizontal "shadow" when some
areas were overexposed. This has been greatly reduced in v0.7.0.
- Pink/magenta shift (especially in bright areas) reduced overall.
CinemaDNG Metadata:
- All cameras formerly saved DNG images with metadata that indicated they
were Chronos 1.4s, but this has been fixed. Chronos 2.1 cameras now say
"Chronos 2.1" and Chronos 1.4 cameras still say "Chronos 1.4". - Color matrix settings are saved to DNG images now. Before, color matrix
parameters in DNG files were always the same and ignored the camera's
settings, but now the settings on the camera get saved in DNG files.
Known Issues, Updating Your Camera, and Calibration:
Please see the list attached in the Release Notes.
Updated User Manual and Datasheets
Please see either the 1.4 Resources or 2.1 Resources page on our website: https://www.krontech.ca/ (https://www.krontech.ca/)
As always, please feel free to reach out to us at [email protected] for more urgent support inquiries. Thanks!
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Nice!
With the stability apparently bneing fixes, I'm going to upgrade to 0.7 from 0.5 soon.
By the way: The PDF Release Notes state version 0.6 in the upper left ;)
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Well, i am still out of Empty µSD-Cards, now i actually need to go and get some for this.
I did order some, but they still didn't arrive yet... Also a bit short on time currently, but will for sure install it as soon as i can.
Thanks as always for further improving Camera and Software!
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Thanks sanjay !!!
Do you have any backlog of things to work on? So we can have an idea what's on the pipeline, softwarewise?
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Thanks, a great step to increase the picture quality at lower resolutions!!
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Did a quick test yesterday with 0.7.0, as far as speed times, it is quite an improve!!! Well Done Krontech!!!
Usually I get 12fps at start, going to as low as 8 or 7 fps when saving .DNG on 1280x1024 pixels (using Chronos 1.4)
Yesterday I tested the same resolution and speeds were at start 40fps, after a while it kept going from 25 to 10fps, not a 25fps steady rate, but much faster saving at all...
Not sure the speed oscilation comes from my SSD, cable or camera itself, I'm using a SSD and the e-SATA cable.
So far very happy with the new release!!!
Thank again sanjay!!!
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On shoot today and tested yesterday. Wish this would have come out a day earlier as currently saving all 11 seconds CinemaDNG on 2.1 to a 16GB SD card. Have yet to be able to get network or EsaTa working correctly or for it to recognize 64gb u3 cards.
Any fixes for this in the speed improvements?
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Nice!
With the stability apparently bneing fixes, I'm going to upgrade to 0.7 from 0.5 soon.
By the way: The PDF Release Notes state version 0.6 in the upper left ;)
Ah yes, thank you for catching that!
Thanks sanjay !!!
Do you have any backlog of things to work on? So we can have an idea what's on the pipeline, softwarewise?
For the moment, there isn't much in the pipeline for 1.4/2.1 software updates aside from bugfixes as they come up. We'll usually give the latest release ~2 months to get out onto cameras in the field, and then work with our Support and Sales & Marketing teams to look at our maintenance priorities for the 1.4/2.1.
On shoot today and tested yesterday. Wish this would have come out a day earlier as currently saving all 11 seconds CinemaDNG on 2.1 to a 16GB SD card. Have yet to be able to get network or EsaTa working correctly or for it to recognize 64gb u3 cards.
Any fixes for this in the speed improvements?
Personally wasn't aware of the issue with 64GB u3 cards, but I will ask the team. It may be helpful to send us a support email about this one as well.
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thanks Sanjay,
Perfect timing, I'm about to start a series of shots with very light backgrounds and was worried about the magenta cast in highlights...
Great to have the Ethernet update back, so easy!
Cheers,
Col
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Thanks Krontech,
i tested it yesterday, now i get between 13 and 17+ fps saving speed on the 2.1 in 1080p DNG, average speed something around 15-16fps. With older software it was something around 10fps!
Great update so far!
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So I was able to get a SanDisk 64GB u3 card to work. I get a popup message when I insert the card that says there is no High speed media available. This was making me think it did not support it but was able to write to it. This was still on 0.6.0, but upgraded to 0.7.0 last night and will try again.
I was unable to get network update to work but was sharing a wifi connection from Mac Book Pro via 2.5G ethernet adapter so will try again with direct ethernet.
Still trying to get Network SMB saving and eSATA saving working. Thank you.
Personally wasn't aware of the issue with 64GB u3 cards, but I will ask the team. It may be helpful to send us a support email about this one as well.
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Thanks! 0.7.0 is very nice!
My camera is 2.1, and I always use 0.5.1.
In 0.7.0, especially when saving as H.264, the color is very beautiful.
On the other hand, I feel that it has become very difficult to handle the colors of CinemaDNG.
I'm thinking about shifting to 0.7.0 and shooting H.264 to the main.
Thank you.
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Hello Everyone,
Just upgraded to V0.7.0 yesterday and there's a color shift of the white balance while saving in Cinema DNG. Saving in H.264 is fine. Does anyone have the same problem? No matter how I set the white balance, the color is off saving in Cinema DNG. I.ve attached 2 screen cap for comparison.
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Hello girls and guys! I really wonder what happened to the horizontal banding problem when having strong contrast in the scene. I don't have the camera here right now. The problem was discussed here (https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=637.msg4248#msg4248) and here (https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=665.msg4455#msg4455).
Some experiences already? Thanks!
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Hello girls and guys! I really wonder what happened to the horizontal banding problem when having strong contrast in the scene. I don't have the camera here right now. The problem was discussed here (https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=637.msg4248#msg4248) and here (https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=665.msg4455#msg4455).
Some experiences already? Thanks!
Bought an Micro SD and installed 0.7.0 already by now, but still didnt have time to do in-depth testing so far. The Banding got improved from what i can tell, for some Settings even by a lot, but is still there on some others. Like the Release notes say, it got improved, but still is not completely gone. Quite a bit better though overall. Once i managed to do any meaningful amount of testing on this and other Aspects of Image Quality on this Software Release, i will try to share Results here.
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Thanks! 0.7.0 is very nice!
My camera is 2.1, and I always use 0.5.1.
In 0.7.0, especially when saving as H.264, the color is very beautiful.
On the other hand, I feel that it has become very difficult to handle the colors of CinemaDNG.
I'm thinking about shifting to 0.7.0 and shooting H.264 to the main.
Thank you.
Hello Takashima! I saw a clip from Youtube Channel, 【Slow Motion】キアゲハの求愛【Chronos 2.1 Highspeed】, may I ask, is the color shift from Cinema DNG only? Because I have this problem after upgrading to V0.7.0. Thank you very much for your time.
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Hello Takashima! I saw a clip from Youtube Channel, 【Slow Motion】キアゲハの求愛【Chronos 2.1 Highspeed】, may I ask, is the color shift from Cinema DNG only? Because I have this problem after upgrading to V0.7.0. Thank you very much for your time.
Hello Tiny san. Thank you for watching my YouTube video!
I also have trouble with Cinema DNG, after upgrading to V0.7.0. As Tiny-san said, DNG color is very very shallow. I tried various things in Lightroom, such as increasing the saturation, adjusting the color temperature and Tint, but I could not get the color as I wanted.
------ I can do well with 0.5.1.
But when I recorded it in H.264, I got a very natural and beautiful color video. I've been recording with CinemaDNG for a long time, but with 0.7.0, I feel that switching to H.264 seems to make me happier.
The following two movies both have some color adjustments in Finalcut Pro.
↓Cinema DNG, Ver.0.7.0 Color is strange.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ5VMazF788
↓H.264, Ver.0.7.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94gvbVhOIg
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Hello Takashima! I saw a clip from Youtube Channel, 【Slow Motion】キアゲハの求愛【Chronos 2.1 Highspeed】, may I ask, is the color shift from Cinema DNG only? Because I have this problem after upgrading to V0.7.0. Thank you very much for your time.
Hello Tiny san. Thank you for watching my YouTube video!
I also have trouble with Cinema DNG, after upgrading to V0.7.0. As Tiny-san said, DNG color is very very shallow. I tried various things in Lightroom, such as increasing the saturation, adjusting the color temperature and Tint, but I could not get the color as I wanted.
------ I can do well with 0.5.1.
But when I recorded it in H.264, I got a very natural and beautiful color video. I've been recording with CinemaDNG for a long time, but with 0.7.0, I feel that switching to H.264 seems to make me happier.
The following two movies both have some color adjustments in Finalcut Pro.
↓Cinema DNG, Ver.0.7.0 Color is strange.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ5VMazF788
↓H.264, Ver.0.7.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G94gvbVhOIg
Hello Takashima san. Thank you very much for your time! I'm having the exact same problem like both your clips. I've also tried tweaking the color temperature and tint, no luck to getting the color of cinema DNG files close to the H.264 ones. I'm switching back to V0.6.0 for the time being. Thanks again Takashima san for your time.
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I also have problems with tint on DNG files using 0.7.0, it's really hard to do white balance, something is off... (uploaded a sample)
not sure what to do now. the saving speeds on 0.7.0 are way better, but I don't like H.264...
You just can't have it all, right? lol
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Hi guys,
I wasn't allowed to share my experience with the 0.7 version of the software before it was released, but now that it's out, I'm sure they won't mind me sharing my initial findings.
I haven't had the time yet to properly evaluate the release version of 0.7, but I did do some work helping the Kron folks evaluate an alpha version of the software and the color change with Cinema DNG was present there too.
Here is a link to a video showing my findings:
https://youtu.be/a4dAjT9dE0k
The short answer is that Cinema DNG can be color corrected properly with 0.7, but it's harder and you really need to use a color chart and know how to manipulate the hue/hue and hue/sat histograms using a VectorScope.
I would really recommend watching Gerald Undone's video on color correction, as this type of manipulation is required to get the best out of Cinema DNG (and H.264 for that matter):
https://youtu.be/71ebKrT2XlY
IMHO, the 0.7 release is a massive improvement over 0.6. Solving the pink cast problem and at least most of the gain problems at lower resolutions is a HUGE deal.
One of my recommendations to them was to publish a LUT for both H.264 and Cinema DNG footage to give folks a good starting point. They said they are working to find a color scientist that can help them out with this. I expect they'll come up with something soon.
Once I have time to spend with the release 0.7 version, I will create a custom LUT with DaVinci Resolve using my 5600K lights that I can share if people are interested which might be a decent starting point.
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mklinger thanks for the input
It took me a while to fully understand the color correction, but after a lot of tweaking on Davinci Resolve, I got a usable sequence, but it is really really weird, counter intuitive and well it's hard to get it right. I still think quality wise 0.6.0 was a little better, the DNGs are coming out with a lot of color noise, and a nasty pink/magenta tint that I did not have before...
Anyway, I'm impressed with the speed improvement, but still need time to get the best out of this new DNG files, not happy with that for now...
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mklinger thanks for the input
It took me a while to fully understand the color correction, but after a lot of tweaking on Davinci Resolve, I got a usable sequence, but it is really really weird, counter intuitive and well it's hard to get it right. I still think quality wise 0.6.0 was a little better, the DNGs are coming out with a lot of color noise, and a nasty pink/magenta tint that I did not have before...
Anyway, I'm impressed with the speed improvement, but still need time to get the best out of this new DNG files, not happy with that for now...
Hi muringuets, once you have the color correction figured out for a given light source, you should be able to create your own LUT (look-up-table), and then just apply that to any new footage shot in the same conditions. That is how the process is designed to work with a color chart, shoot once with it, in sunlight, or your artificial lights, etc., use a VectorScope (in software) to dial in objectively perfect colors, or as close as possible, save the LUT, and then you can apply that to future footage with no extra effort or ever having to shoot the color chart again in the same lighting conditions.
Sorry for the long-winded response if you already understand this process.
Basically, shooting in Cinema DNG on the Chronos is now even more like shooting in Log or other various Raw formats on conventional video cameras. Usually, the camera supplier will provide a basic LUT to start with, which is what is missing for us (for now). For example, Canon provides a Log2->Rec709 LUT, Log3->Rec709, etc. It is very challenging to start from scratch if you don't really know what you're doing. For example, adjusting just white balance, tint, color temp, and global saturation is not going to work. Those adjustments are meant to tweak the final color look, but wont get you from Log (or Cinema DNG in our case), to Rec709.
I would say it would be almost impossible to get objectively correct colors from Cinema DNG without a color chart.
I like using the X-Rite ColorChecker Video. It looks like it's been discontinued, but there is a newly name-branded version coming soon:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/replacement_for/1191325-REG/x_rite_msccvpr_colorchecker_video.html
You mentioned that you use DaVinci Resolve. The process of creating custom LUTs is super easy in that environment. You can right-click on a clip in the color correction tab and there is a "Generate LUT" option right there where you can create a custom LUT from your existing correction. The Gerald Undone video I linked in an earlier post shows this in more detail.
FWIW, I do a lot of video work with not just the Chronos, but things like a Canon XF-705, and various DSLRs. I waited WAY too long before I got a proper color calibration chart and learned how to use it. It makes all the difference in the world!
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I still think quality wise 0.6.0 was a little better, the DNGs are coming out with a lot of color noise, and a nasty pink/magenta tint that I did not have before...
One quick thing, double check that you updated all the way to version 0.7. The pink/magenta cast was a big problem with 0.6 but I found it was pretty much completely fixed in 0.7 except for very high gain situations at low resolutions.
If you were at version 0.5, I'm not sure if the camera would auto-update all the way to 0.7, or if you need to update to 0.6 first. Anyway, before you pull your hair out too much, re-check the software version on the camera to make sure it is indeed 0.7 especially if you came from 0.5.
I need to check the release 0.7 in case they changed something drastic from the alpha 0.7 I was testing, but as you can see from this video, the pink cast was a major problem with v6 and almost completely fixed with v7 in my experience:
https://youtu.be/a4dAjT9dE0k
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if anyone has a bunch of spare time, there is also a bunch of unstable 0.7.x Releases from before the Official 0.7.0 Stable Release:
http://debian.krontech.ca/builds/
Maybe one of them is different in terms of color. Whoever feels the need to or has the Time To do so, can also test them/ play around with them.
Still havent looked at them, as i so far didnt even have time to propperly test the Stable Release, but downloaded and Archived them, as they probably will be gone sooner or later (as the 5.1 Unstable is long gone now), just in case they are usefull/ better for some resolution/ Setting i might need/ want at some point in the Future.
So might be a good idea to download for anyone who wants to do some testing at some point, as long as they are still there.
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...but as you can see from this video, the pink cast was a major problem with v6 and almost completely fixed with v7 in my experience:
https://youtu.be/a4dAjT9dE0k
Hello, mklinger san.
Wonderful! Now I know the power of version 0.7, I would definitely like to use it positively. Of course, with Cinema DNG.
And I'm looking forward to the development of LUT.
Thank you!
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I still think quality wise 0.6.0 was a little better, the DNGs are coming out with a lot of color noise, and a nasty pink/magenta tint that I did not have before...
One quick thing, double check that you updated all the way to version 0.7. The pink/magenta cast was a big problem with 0.6 but I found it was pretty much completely fixed in 0.7 except for very high gain situations at low resolutions.
If you were at version 0.5, I'm not sure if the camera would auto-update all the way to 0.7, or if you need to update to 0.6 first. Anyway, before you pull your hair out too much, re-check the software version on the camera to make sure it is indeed 0.7 especially if you came from 0.5.
I need to check the release 0.7 in case they changed something drastic from the alpha 0.7 I was testing, but as you can see from this video, the pink cast was a major problem with v6 and almost completely fixed with v7 in my experience:
https://youtu.be/a4dAjT9dE0k
Hello mklinger. Thank you very much for your explanation and review on V0.7.0. I'll definitely work on the DNG a bit more, like grading log from scratch.
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if anyone has a bunch of spare time, there is also a bunch of unstable 0.7.x Releases from before the Official 0.7.0 Stable Release:
http://debian.krontech.ca/builds/
Maybe one of them is different in terms of color. Whoever feels the need to or has the Time To do so, can also test them/ play around with them.
Still havent looked at them, as i so far didnt even have time to propperly test the Stable Release, but downloaded and Archived them, as they probably will be gone sooner or later (as the 5.1 Unstable is long gone now), just in case they are usefull/ better for some resolution/ Setting i might need/ want at some point in the Future.
So might be a good idea to download for anyone who wants to do some testing at some point, as long as they are still there.
Hello Nikon1. Thank you for the links to the unstable releases. You’re absolutely right about testings, I think I just might test them all.
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Hi muringuets, once you have the color correction figured out for a given light source, you should be able to create your own LUT (look-up-table), and then just apply that to any new footage shot in the same conditions. That is how the process is designed to work with a color chart, shoot once with it, in sunlight, or your artificial lights, etc., use a VectorScope (in software) to dial in objectively perfect colors, or as close as possible, save the LUT, and then you can apply that to future footage with no extra effort or ever having to shoot the color chart again in the same lighting conditions.
Sorry for the long-winded response if you already understand this process.
Basically, shooting in Cinema DNG on the Chronos is now even more like shooting in Log or other various Raw formats on conventional video cameras. Usually, the camera supplier will provide a basic LUT to start with, which is what is missing for us (for now). For example, Canon provides a Log2->Rec709 LUT, Log3->Rec709, etc. It is very challenging to start from scratch if you don't really know what you're doing. For example, adjusting just white balance, tint, color temp, and global saturation is not going to work. Those adjustments are meant to tweak the final color look, but wont get you from Log (or Cinema DNG in our case), to Rec709.
I would say it would be almost impossible to get objectively correct colors from Cinema DNG without a color chart.
I like using the X-Rite ColorChecker Video. It looks like it's been discontinued, but there is a newly name-branded version coming soon:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/replacement_for/1191325-REG/x_rite_msccvpr_colorchecker_video.html
You mentioned that you use DaVinci Resolve. The process of creating custom LUTs is super easy in that environment. You can right-click on a clip in the color correction tab and there is a "Generate LUT" option right there where you can create a custom LUT from your existing correction. The Gerald Undone video I linked in an earlier post shows this in more detail.
FWIW, I do a lot of video work with not just the Chronos, but things like a Canon XF-705, and various DSLRs. I waited WAY too long before I got a proper color calibration chart and learned how to use it. It makes all the difference in the world!
Hello mklinger. I’ve followed your instructions and colour corrected 2 clips, the result is much better now than before! I was just doing quick tests, will dive in more deeply in the near future.
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Hello mklinger. I’ve followed your instructions and colour corrected 2 clips, the result is much better now than before! I was just doing quick tests, will dive in more deeply in the near future.
Your color corrected clips are looking good, nice job!!
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I still think quality wise 0.6.0 was a little better, the DNGs are coming out with a lot of color noise, and a nasty pink/magenta tint that I did not have before...
One quick thing, double check that you updated all the way to version 0.7. The pink/magenta cast was a big problem with 0.6 but I found it was pretty much completely fixed in 0.7 except for very high gain situations at low resolutions.
If you were at version 0.5, I'm not sure if the camera would auto-update all the way to 0.7, or if you need to update to 0.6 first. Anyway, before you pull your hair out too much, re-check the software version on the camera to make sure it is indeed 0.7 especially if you came from 0.5.
I need to check the release 0.7 in case they changed something drastic from the alpha 0.7 I was testing, but as you can see from this video, the pink cast was a major problem with v6 and almost completely fixed with v7 in my experience:
https://youtu.be/a4dAjT9dE0k
Hi mklinger, I did update correctly from 0.6.0 to 0.7.0, checked and it is working properly...
I watched your video about 0.7 alpha testing, and the other one you suggested about color correcting log videos. I'm new to this video editing and professional tools and stuff, I'd say I'm just used to the previous method of color correcting and editing videos. I own the 1.4 camera for about 2 years now, and it took me a while to get good results out of it, I was happy (not in the saving speed department, but it's okay), it's just another step that I'll have to conquer on this long learning curve, but I'll get there...
I have just one comment about all this, you're using the 2.1 camera, and I see a lot of posts around here where you guys have problems with this version (purple/magenta tint, lower resolutions problems, banding, etc), but I'd like to see some tests made on the 1.4 version, just to make sure the software is developing in a way older cameras are getting improved too, because if they don't, I might as well stay on and older software version...
Anyway, I understand the importance of this version, and the improvements you're getting on your camera, but comparing my footages on 0.6.0 and 0.7.0 I can't really see a lot of improvements, it's the other way around... And I say this mainly analising footage from open areas, without aditional lights, just regular sun light (perhaps too little lights, but that's what I have to work with)...
Anyway, seems like a good time to upgrade my camera...
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I still think quality wise 0.6.0 was a little better, the DNGs are coming out with a lot of color noise, and a nasty pink/magenta tint that I did not have before...
One quick thing, double check that you updated all the way to version 0.7. The pink/magenta cast was a big problem with 0.6 but I found it was pretty much completely fixed in 0.7 except for very high gain situations at low resolutions.
If you were at version 0.5, I'm not sure if the camera would auto-update all the way to 0.7, or if you need to update to 0.6 first. Anyway, before you pull your hair out too much, re-check the software version on the camera to make sure it is indeed 0.7 especially if you came from 0.5.
I need to check the release 0.7 in case they changed something drastic from the alpha 0.7 I was testing, but as you can see from this video, the pink cast was a major problem with v6 and almost completely fixed with v7 in my experience:
https://youtu.be/a4dAjT9dE0k
Hi mklinger, I did update correctly from 0.6.0 to 0.7.0, checked and it is working properly...
I watched your video about 0.7 alpha testing, and the other one you suggested about color correcting log videos. I'm new to this video editing and professional tools and stuff, I'd say I'm just used to the previous method of color correcting and editing videos. I own the 1.4 camera for about 2 years now, and it took me a while to get good results out of it, I was happy (not in the saving speed department, but it's okay), it's just another step that I'll have to conquer on this long learning curve, but I'll get there...
I have just one comment about all this, you're using the 2.1 camera, and I see a lot of posts around here where you guys have problems with this version (purple/magenta tint, lower resolutions problems, banding, etc), but I'd like to see some tests made on the 1.4 version, just to make sure the software is developing in a way older cameras are getting improved too, because if they don't, I might as well stay on and older software version...
Anyway, I understand the importance of this version, and the improvements you're getting on your camera, but comparing my footages on 0.6.0 and 0.7.0 I can't really see a lot of improvements, it's the other way around... And I say this mainly analising footage from open areas, without aditional lights, just regular sun light (perhaps too little lights, but that's what I have to work with)...
Anyway, seems like a good time to upgrade my camera...
Ahh, I didn't realize you were using a Chronos 1.4. It's my understanding that that camera has not had nearly the same image quality issues as the 2.1, at least not since its early days. The 2.1 has been almost unusable under certain conditions until this release, so it's a big deal for that camera.
I have no idea how 0.7 works compared to 0.6 on a Chronos 1.4. There probably isn't much image quality difference as it was already really good, from the examples I see (I don't own one). Maybe the biggest reason for you to upgrade would be the saving speed increase, but if you are happy with the earlier version work flow, it might not be worth it.
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Didnt completely follow the last bit of conversation here, so sorry if i misread / misunderstand something, but from what i seen, the 1.4 had pretty decent Image Quality from rather Early on, and while it is still by far not a bad camera in any way, i would think that most people would mainly use the 1.4 for Higher framerates or general Highspeed Use. Anyone serious about High End Image Quality would want to use an 2.1, as even the 1080p FullHD Resolution the 2.1 Shoots is pretty much the Lowest Resolution that is still considered worth shooting for Entertainment/ Advertising/ ect. (4k is by now about Standard in mid to High end Consumer Cameras, 6K and 8K are coming... I personally still use mostly 1080p anyways, and Shoot 4K casually) today, with 720p HD being barely accepted as "high Quality" still. That in turn means that anyone using an 2.1 probably also is way more serious about getting High Quality Footage out of there. Given that there is also way less complaints about the 1.4 Image Quality to be heard, i guess the Focus of Development has become the 2.1 Image Quality. On the 1.4, as already has been said, you wouldnt really have much reason to upgrade anyways, if you just want to get Highspeed Footage of [whatever], and i assume most 1.4 Users wouldnt Upgrade camera Software regularly, but on the 2.1 there was also the Issue with the first batch of Sensors not being quite Perfect, so they behave Weird in some Situations and such. Causing Lines, Reduced Dynamic Range, Blacks Randomly cutting out completely in some Areas of the 2.1 Sensors and a lot of other things.
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A good bit of all those Image Quality Improvements are still workarounds / fixes for those Problems that caused, not sure how the Current Batch of Sensors is Quality wise, but the first batch, of which i got one, was fairly bad. By now (from what i can tell so far from my rather limited amount of testing i did until now), with 6.0 and 7.0 Software, these Problems of the 2.1 Sensors have mostly been fixed, and you can get quite good footage from them in most Situations.
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I dont own an 1.4 or have access to one, so i cant tell how these Improvements would affect one, but for the 2.1 these Fixes/ changes/ Improvements where Absolutely needed. Still not perfect, but way better than 5.1 and anything pre 5.1 (for most settings at least. Low Framerate stuff on the 2.1 is still best on Build 0.5.037.). With current versions, i can at least shoot Something without some Insane Lighting Setup and still needing to run heavy Denoising and other extreme Processing to get Presentable Footage.
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Otherwise, anyone owning or using an 1.4 can and should still Post about any Issues here and i am sure they will be fixed sooner or later, but the 2.1 Sensor just seems to have an order of magnitude more Problems In terms of Image Quality, then the 1.4 Sensor ever had.
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Nikon1, I think you got the point, but just to clarify, bear in mind that it is really hard to express myself clearly using technical language, but I'll do my best (english is not my country official language).
2.1 seems to have a lot of problems, so it's normal to focus on solving these problems, not complaining about the "attention it gets" in any sense...
1.4 are working fine for a while now, and it keeps receiving software updates, which is super awesome, and I'm not complaining too...
Point is, since the problems are mainly on 2.1, does the update bring anything better for 1.4?
Well, quick answer is yes, it should. And seems to be the case for the saving speeds.
But did anyone check for other aspects, like image quality? Did the software team checked the effects of these updates on 1.4?
I'll probably get an answer that says "sure it will improve quality and everything on 1.4 too, you're talking nonsense". That answer is okay for me, I'm not a professional videomaker and stuff, I'll accept it. I was just saying that comparing some footage I have on the 1.4 camera, it does not seem the case, and I may be wrong and it is ok too...
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No Problem at all, i myself am German and English is also not my native / first language. By now its not as bad as it used to be, but i even have problems expressing my thoughts in German Language at times, English is way worse, so i absolutely feel you in that one.
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As far as the 1.4 / Software goes, i am like 200% sure they did test it to at least some extent on there, and if there where Major Issues / drawbacks from any Changes Made, i am also sure those would have been looked at (if noticed by whoever did whatever amount of testing on there..., Keep that in mind!) and solved in other ways.
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If there are Issues with the 1.4 and 0.7.0, can you post examples/ give more Specific details about those?
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I also noticed quite a bunch of Settings on 0.7.0, which will cause issues or worse Performance than Previous Releases, but dont want to post like 10 Single Posts about those, so i will put those Here, whenever i got time to do enough testing, that i can say [these Settings] cause [that] for sure, and can Provide Examples. Otherwise i think, i would just cause a ton of work for People at Krontech, which then would try to figure out however i managed to get so bad Footage in the First place. So i will try to provide documentation and also try to figure out a Pattern for when / what is going on (Gain/ Exposure Time Settings, will post later about that).
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Would be interested myself also to see a Comparison on the 1.4, if you have any Footage on hand to share. Pretty sure That the Same goes for The Guys at Krontech.
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No Problem at all, i myself am German and English is also not my native / first language. By now its not as bad as it used to be, but i even have problems expressing my thoughts in German Language at times, English is way worse, so i absolutely feel you in that one.
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As far as the 1.4 / Software goes, i am like 200% sure they did test it to at least some extent on there, and if there where Major Issues / drawbacks from any Changes Made, i am also sure those would have been looked at (if noticed by whoever did whatever amount of testing on there..., Keep that in mind!) and solved in other ways.
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If there are Issues with the 1.4 and 0.7.0, can you post examples/ give more Specific details about those?
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I also noticed quite a bunch of Settings on 0.7.0, which will cause issues or worse Performance than Previous Releases, but dont want to post like 10 Single Posts about those, so i will put those Here, whenever i got time to do enough testing, that i can say [these Settings] cause [that] for sure, and can Provide Examples. Otherwise i think, i would just cause a ton of work for People at Krontech, which then would try to figure out however i managed to get so bad Footage in the First place. So i will try to provide documentation and also try to figure out a Pattern for when / what is going on (Gain/ Exposure Time Settings, will post later about that).
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Would be interested myself also to see a Comparison on the 1.4, if you have and Footage on hand to share. Pretty sure That the Same goes for The Guys at Krontech.
I'd be surprised if Krontech sent out a FW without major tests on both platforms, so as I said earlier, the answer will pobably be "yeah we tested, it's fine"...
But you raised an interesting point, perhaps the problems I experienced are coming out from wrong parameters in the setup, I'll check...
I've tried only a few shots on 0.7.0 and I'd definitely need more tests to confirm my assumption on the quality loss I observed... For now I'll keep testing, if something pops up as a potencial culprit I'll let you know...
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Hi, everyone.
I want to shoot with Cinema DNG with Chronos 2.1 Ver.0.7.0.
But I couldn't get the right color!
I searched for a solution for a while, finaly, I reached to the X-rite ColorChecker Passport 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL2BWQRJbv8&t
↑Sorry, this is japanese clip.
I hesitated to pay close to $ 200 for this color chart, but the results were very very good. I wanted this color! I was finally able to reach it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-k7MYPWbIw&t
Thank you!
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Hi, everyone.
I want to shoot with Cinema DNG with Chronos 2.1 Ver.0.7.0.
But I couldn't get the right color!
I searched for a solution for a while, finaly, I reached to the X-rite ColorChecker Passport 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL2BWQRJbv8&t
↑Sorry, this is japanese clip.
I hesitated to pay close to $ 200 for this color chart, but the results were very very good. I wanted this color! I was finally able to reach it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-k7MYPWbIw&t
Thank you!
Hi Takashima, congratulations on your color results, they look fantastic!
It was also difficult for me to initially justify the cost of a color chart, but it's really a necessary tool if you are serious about the final results.
I look forward to seeing more of your videos!
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Very impressive! And very nice color!
Actually I don't understand how the color progress works. I wonder if a) the camera itself does have a LUT that is applied to the RAW internally or if b) the DNG really are absolutely unprocessed data and the LUT has to be applied in post?
If a): As the colors changed with the software version, there has to be some algorithm working in camera, right? If so: which? Is this the color Matrix?
If b): Does one have to develop sort of default setting for Adobe RAW or DaVinci then?
In any case, these settings would be shareable to all users of this camera, no?
Sorry for these beginners questions, I never digged into all that...
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Hi, everyone.
I want to shoot with Cinema DNG with Chronos 2.1 Ver.0.7.0.
But I couldn't get the right color!
I searched for a solution for a while, finaly, I reached to the X-rite ColorChecker Passport 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL2BWQRJbv8&t
↑Sorry, this is japanese clip.
I hesitated to pay close to $ 200 for this color chart, but the results were very very good. I wanted this color! I was finally able to reach it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-k7MYPWbIw&t
Thank you!
Hi Takashima, congratulations on your color results, they look fantastic!
It was also difficult for me to initially justify the cost of a color chart, but it's really a necessary tool if you are serious about the final results.
I look forward to seeing more of your videos!
Hello, Mklinger-san. Thank you very much！
I would like to recommend it to everyone who has similar problems with color development.
It's expensive shopping, but it's worth it.
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Very impressive! And very nice color!
Actually I don't understand how the color progress works. I wonder if a) the camera itself does have a LUT that is applied to the RAW internally or if b) the DNG really are absolutely unprocessed data and the LUT has to be applied in post?
If a): As the colors changed with the software version, there has to be some algorithm working in camera, right? If so: which? Is this the color Matrix?
If b): Does one have to develop sort of default setting for Adobe RAW or DaVinci then?
Sorry for these beginners questions, I never digged into all that...
Hi clkdiv,
I'm not 100% sure if DNG is completely unprocessed in the camera, but it certainly behaves similarly to Log and RAW formats from other video cameras which have very little or no processing.
The benefits of using DNG over H.264 are a higher color bit depth, meaning more color information is actually stored, which typically means more dynamic range is possible. There are also no compression artifacts from the H.264 process itself, meaning you can wait until the very last step in your process to create a compressed video file for YouTube or whatever. This is ideal if you do any post processing with the file.
Regarding your second question, yes, there really needs to be a default LUT that gets applied in post that goes from Cinema DNG to Rec709. You need this LUT for every different lighting condition, but having a standard one for daylight would be very useful. I suggested to the Kron folks that they publish a default LUT, and they are working towards that, but don't have one yet. Having a proper color chart and some knowledge how to use it allows users to create these on their own and get really good results (like takashima's video above).
The general process is you shoot a video of just the color chart in your lighting conditions. You color correct that video using a VectorScope (in software) based on the very objective "perfect" colors on the chart (which is why those charts cost $100+). You then create a custom LUT that gets you the proper transformation in those conditions (this step is trivial in DaVinci Resolve). Then, you can shoot anything else in those conditions and just apply that previous LUT and it'll get you there!
At this point, for 0.7 on a Chronos 2.1, if you don't have a color chart, I would probably stick to shooting H.264 for now - but even that needs some adjustment to get proper colors, but not nearly as much and you can get reasonable results with the basic adjustments like temp/tint/saturation.
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Very impressive! And very nice color!
Actually I don't understand how the color progress works. I wonder if a) the camera itself does have a LUT that is applied to the RAW internally or if b) the DNG really are absolutely unprocessed data and the LUT has to be applied in post?
If a): As the colors changed with the software version, there has to be some algorithm working in camera, right? If so: which? Is this the color Matrix?
If b): Does one have to develop sort of default setting for Adobe RAW or DaVinci then?
In any case, these settings would be shareable to all users of this camera, no?
Sorry for these beginners questions, I never digged into all that...
Hello. clkdiv-san
I shoot with Chronos 2.1 by default with both color settings and color matrix. Color processing is only in Adobe Lightroom. After processing, I export to jpegs and make movie.
Maybe the DNG file should include the camera profile (like LUT) of Chronos Camera. Apparently, a typical camera RAW file has a camera profile. So, if you open a typical RAW file in Adobe Lightroom or Camera RAW, etc., the camera profile will be applied and the color will be displayed properly. I interpreted so.
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Hello and thanks for your replies. I fully understand the advantages of RAW over H264, that's not my problem. I am just wondering where the "default" look of the RAW is created.
Now if I get it right, the in camera color Matrix is applied to H264 only, right?
In DaVinci you have that color matching tool. With this you can film the color cards you bought for 200$ and then make DaVinci match the footage the color card. As shown here (https://youtu.be/GWIRCMeSnDo?t=92), right?
Now would it be possible to film the color card with a standard 5.600k light and then match this footage min DaVindi to the color card, and boom, one would have a sharable algorithm that could be posted here? This would at least give a good starting point, no?
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Hello and thanks for your replies. I fully understand the advantages of RAW over H264, that's not my problem. I am just wondering where the "default" look of the RAW is created.
Now if I get it right, the in camera color Matrix is applied to H264 only, right?
In DaVinci you have that color matching tool. With this you can film the color cards you bought for 200$ and then make DaVinci match the footage the color card. As shown here (https://youtu.be/GWIRCMeSnDo?t=92), right?
Now would it be possible to film the color card with a standard 5.600k light and then match this footage min DaVindi to the color card, and boom, one would have a sharable algorithm that could be posted here? This would at least give a good starting point, no?
Yes, exactly! We are waiting for the Kron folks to create and share the "official" LUT.
I haven't had a chance to spend enough time with 0.7 yet to dial in a LUT with my 5600K lights, but I (or anyone) could certainly share DaVinci LUTs once created for a good starting point. It's on my to-do list :)
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Hi, everyone.
I want to shoot with Cinema DNG with Chronos 2.1 Ver.0.7.0.
But I couldn't get the right color!
I searched for a solution for a while, finaly, I reached to the X-rite ColorChecker Passport 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL2BWQRJbv8&t
↑Sorry, this is japanese clip.
I hesitated to pay close to $ 200 for this color chart, but the results were very very good. I wanted this color! I was finally able to reach it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-k7MYPWbIw&t
Thank you!
Hello Takashima san. Beautiful colors! Looking forward to seeing more of your videos.
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Hi, everyone.
I want to shoot with Cinema DNG with Chronos 2.1 Ver.0.7.0.
But I couldn't get the right color!
I searched for a solution for a while, finaly, I reached to the X-rite ColorChecker Passport 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL2BWQRJbv8&t
↑Sorry, this is japanese clip.
I hesitated to pay close to $ 200 for this color chart, but the results were very very good. I wanted this color! I was finally able to reach it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-k7MYPWbIw&t
Thank you!
Hello Takashima san. Beautiful colors! Looking forward to seeing more of your videos.
HI, Tiny san.
I haven't been interested in color charts until now. I am very grateful for you and everyone.
I will continue to shoot various slow motions.
Thank you！
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Hello Dear Community and Dear DevOPs,
First I wanna say many thanks for this Gem, The Chronos 2.1, on my hand for about 2 month now.
I did not get the time to use it much yet, it came first with version 0.6, and of course I have noticed some functions that I think needs some improvements, more on this later.
3 days ago I did flash the new 0.7 version, (not with Etcher BTW ) and .... WOW !!!
I must say I am very impressed !
I see really huge improvements on image quality, de-noising, as you all have noticed, and I can confirm noise are (nearly) history on many resolution and gain combinations. so some of the camera resolutions that were barely usable I must say, on 0.6, are now very accessible.
Now I can increase sensivity / gain without the sacrifice of quality and so I can now feel the sensor being much sensitive to light, I can close the aperture and get more decent DOF and still get enough light.
Thanks a mil for that and I cant wait for the next improvements on the future version
1st impressions with Chronos 2.1 : WISHLIST for improvements
I am tracking thunderstorms, looking for the perfect spiders or branched lightning strike in slow-mo.
but using the very bright glittering screen in the nightime, with the high brightness UI, and the high brightness top leds, (power, trigger, charge) is really an annoyance in such a use.
so my wish / suggestion is to have a setting, in future FW releases, to have a kind of Night Mode, easy on the night eyes
• ability to disable the screen completely
• or to choose some lower brightness settings,
• and/or to disable individually the UI display temporarily (i.e. until a screen touch or a jog press )
same for the very bright and disturbing and blinding leds at the top of the Chronos :
either be able to disable them or at least please have a software toggle/menu to make them -MUCH- more discreet, much less distracting
Other Improvement ideas :
- More custom Presets to be able to save (currently only one user custom white bal, and only one user custom matrix can be saved)
ideally, they could be user-meaningful named presets
- a tunable histogram, RGBL, on each channel, like in many consumer camera would be a great added value,
- Tunable HSV cursors as well would be so simple and great, compared to the current Matrix which is rather obscure and a pain to fine tune
- screen saver : for subjects that don't have dynamic lighting intensity changes, once we have set up the aperture and checked the frame illumination is correct, we could have a way to lower the screen brightness, screen brightness adjustments, even for the UI, even enable the full screen off, to save power but keep the Chronos eiher on standby or fully ready but with screen off, yeah, because you already framed your subject.
Not sure if you gain much on battery autonomy with this, but at least it can still be useful as a night-mode.
- make the UI disappear (user switchable, toggle UI on or off, i.e. with triple screen tap, or jog clic, or whatever)
- and maximize the frame size, enlarge the frame to full screen display
- UI only, brightness adjustments, or even allow transparency | to keep focus on the photo frame and less be distracted by the always-on UI
I guess Alway-on UI may burn the screen at that position with time
- if not already an existing function that I missed : allow playback of individual stored files directly from the Chronos, again more like in consumer cameras ( Read and play stored video files and not only the latest ) AFAIK, this is not possible as of version 0.7.
- Some more adjustment steps for Screen Digital Zoom with double tap screen, currently, only 2,5x is available, need more smoother steps and even higher magnifications, i.e. to achieve super precise subject focus.
- Need to be able to pan inside / across the Screen Zoom region to be able to spot an interesting subject not in frame center (currently, the screen zoom is only on the center region)
- from the Play / preview screen : Need to be able to select a frame region-crop for the final save file, thus, even less time to save the relevant region, and this enables a last optional re-framing of the subject before saving (i agree that this function can be left to the post processing software, but again if already implemented on the Chronos, it may boost the clip save speed on some situations, of course at the cost of time to set up this region)
- Video overlay : more user selectable info :
- True Source Original Capture Framerate
- Date and Time
- Overlay position (enable portrait)
- any user free message (ideally formatted with variables, i.e. like "made by CavOkay YYYY/MM/DD HH:MM:SS ")
and last idea, I found the camera startup time is quite noticeable, and so, to be extra super ready to shoot dynamic subjects, (insects, birds and other life forms ) we have currently no other choice but to leave the Chronos running, at the cost of battery autonomy and maybe components life, like mainly the sensor, fan noise.
so I think this Gem needs a sleep mode, with a fast wake up. of course I dont know if it can be implemented, this will involve the ability to sleep the sensor and whatever consumes power, with a real quick wake up, just like any modern laptop.
This would enable a dramatic power saving at the field and I assume it may save on the sensor life too, save on the fan noise too. Fan noise is permanent and can disturb some living and moving creatures that you want to catch as natural as possible.
i.e. imagine this situation : I am near a flower, but currently there is no insect around, so I am waiting.
Case 1 : I let the Chronos up and running + the fan noise. since there is no insect, there is no need for now to pull the trigger and record, but power will be anyhow wasted until the subject enters the flower.
If I choose to save on the battery, then currently with the current Chronos software, I will have to PowerOff.
then if the subject appears, I will probably not be ready to shoot until camera is fully booted, so maybe too late for the interesting part.
Case 2 : with a sleep mode (the one I wish), simply put the Chronos to a sleep, kinda like a laptop sleep, until the subject appears, either with low fan or even none if possible, then wake up in seconds and enjoy the extra power saved while it was sleeping.
well these are so far my thoughts for an even better Chronos, a dream Chronos,
Hope that it helps, kindly let me know what do you think about these.
One more couple things (bugs ?) about version 0.7 :
- the restore settings did not work for me, seems broken, has anyone experienced the same ? (was not a big pain though)
- the digital shutter aperture angle is maxed out at 357 degrees, no matter how you try to top it at 360, it definitely tops at 357.
I guess that internally, the real value is updated and that this is some kind of rounding issue, so not a big deal of a glitch.
Well, sorry for this long post, and again, Thank you for Version 0.7 ,
and BTW congrats to everyone here with your clips, they are awesome !!
Regards,
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so I think this Gem needs a sleep mode, with a fast wake up. of course I dont know if it can be implemented, this will involve the ability to sleep the sensor and whatever consumes power, with a real quick wake up, just like any modern laptop.
This would enable a dramatic power saving at the field and I assume it may save on the sensor life too, save on the fan noise too. Fan noise is permanent and can disturb some living and moving creatures that you want to catch as natural as possible.
It's a very interesting idea... For now I'd recommend you to go for a portable power bank, I'm using a Jackery 300, so far really satisfied, I can power a 150W lamp and the camera at the same time, perfect solution for field use...
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Tested the camera again this weekend, this time under artificial lights...
Got much metter results on the colour grading...
No more questions raised, I take back what I said before about quality issues on 0.7.0 1.4 camera.
I suspect that shooting with the correct color matrix is much more relevant for now, before I didn't give much attention, as I saw no real benefit, since I could adjust the white balance on post, and it would work nice. Now, I think I'll have to adjust for that when shooting, so I have a easier post production...
Thanks everyone, and Krontech, sorry for the multiple posting and weird questions asked...
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I had the camera for a few months and I love it. I am using it mainly to shoot nature in sunlight. I have had good success enjoying it very much. I save as DNG and process in lightroom. In upgrading from 0.6 to 0.7 -- I noticed the following
1. Save speed increased from around 10 fps to 15-17 fps at 1000 fps HD to SSD drive
2. The color shift in 0.7 is significant. The color correction is harder than 0.6. I feel 0.6 color was more manageable.
3. The banding in 0.7 is difficult to clean. I need to shoot at x4 gain to get the necessary shutter speed outdoors. Out of box, the noise in 0.6 is similar to 0.7. But once I perform noise reduction in LightRoom then 0.6 is smoother than 0.7
I have to test more.
Feel free to check out my channel --
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCypxxGen3ZrDdSla_Hentig
Most of the videos are on 0.6 version.
Thank you
Rajesh
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Hi everyone,
I recently took the time to try and refine my Chronos 2.1 DaVinci Resolve LUT by lighting my color chart with 2 Godox VL300 5600K lights and spending some time to really dial in the colors and white balance.
I am pretty happy with the results and thought I'd share my LUT with the wider community if anyone would like to try it out. It should be a decent starting point for indoor controlled lighting at 5600K or daylight shooting.
You can download the LUT here:
https://klingerphotography.com/Chronos21/Chronos21_v7_Release_5600K_v3.cube_2.frame.cube
I think all you need to do is drop it in your DaVinci Resolve LUT folder. On my machine that is here:
C:\ProgramData\Blackmagic Design\DaVinci Resolve\Support\LUT
What the images below show are the before and after of the color chart under controlled lighting, and then just a quick outdoor shot under direct sunlight with the only correction being applying the attached LUT.
Hopefully this helps some folks out who are struggling to get decent color with Cinema DNG files from the Chronos 2.1.
I'm using the paid "Studio" version of Resolve. I'm pretty sure this will work with the free version and probably with other NLE programs like Premiere, Final Cut, etc., but I haven't tried any of those packages.
Thanks!
Marc
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Thanks very much for the LUT, that will save a lot of time :)
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Thanks mklinger
I'll shoot this weekend and I'll report back!!
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Thanks mklinger
I'll shoot this weekend and I'll report back!!
Hi muringuets, remember, this LUT was designed for the Chronos 2.1. I think you mentioned you had a 1.4. It may work well on those DNG files, but honestly, I doubt it...
Someone needs to do the same exercise with a 1.4 camera and 0.7 to provide a similar LUT.
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Thanks mklinger
I'll shoot this weekend and I'll report back!!
Hi muringuets, remember, this LUT was designed for the Chronos 2.1. I think you mentioned you had a 1.4. It may work well on those DNG files, but honestly, I doubt it...
Someone needs to do the same exercise with a 1.4 camera and 0.7 to provide a similar LUT.
I have the exact same "washed out" colours as your comparison image, figured I should try your LUT, I knew it probably would not work, but I tried anyway... As you might expect, results were not good...
Feeling a bit frustrated now, no matter how much I try, I can't bring the colors back on my footage, still washed out colours, otherwise too much green and too much red, no vibrance... Boy this is hard hehe
Rolling back to 0.6.0 until some LUTs surface, or at least until I can figure out how to properly extract the correct colors from the footage...
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Thanks mklinger
I'll shoot this weekend and I'll report back!!
Hi muringuets, remember, this LUT was designed for the Chronos 2.1. I think you mentioned you had a 1.4. It may work well on those DNG files, but honestly, I doubt it...
Someone needs to do the same exercise with a 1.4 camera and 0.7 to provide a similar LUT.
I have the exact same "washed out" colours as your comparison image, figured I should try your LUT, I knew it probably would not work, but I tried anyway... As you might expect, results were not good...
Feeling a bit frustrated now, no matter how much I try, I can't bring the colors back on my footage, still washed out colours, otherwise too much green and too much red, no vibrance... Boy this is hard hehe
Rolling back to 0.6.0 until some LUTs surface, or at least until I can figure out how to properly extract the correct colors from the footage...
Do you have a color chart? If you can shoot it with 5600K lights (or outside) as evenly as possible and as well exposed as possible, post the DNG and I'll see if I can create a LUT from it.
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Thanks mklinger
I'll shoot this weekend and I'll report back!!
Hi muringuets, remember, this LUT was designed for the Chronos 2.1. I think you mentioned you had a 1.4. It may work well on those DNG files, but honestly, I doubt it...
Someone needs to do the same exercise with a 1.4 camera and 0.7 to provide a similar LUT.
I have the exact same "washed out" colours as your comparison image, figured I should try your LUT, I knew it probably would not work, but I tried anyway... As you might expect, results were not good...
Feeling a bit frustrated now, no matter how much I try, I can't bring the colors back on my footage, still washed out colours, otherwise too much green and too much red, no vibrance... Boy this is hard hehe
Rolling back to 0.6.0 until some LUTs surface, or at least until I can figure out how to properly extract the correct colors from the footage...
Do you have a color chart? If you can shoot it with 5600K lights (or outside) as evenly as possible and as well exposed as possible, post the DNG and I'll see if I can create a LUT from it.
Also post a couple DNG images from actual shots you are trying to color correct so I can fine tune the LUT attempt if possible.
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Thank you mklinger for the help...
I'll buy a color calibration chart, I'll post here when it arrives...
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Thank you mklinger for the help...
I'll buy a color calibration chart, I'll post here when it arrives...
Sounds good, I'm happy to help. When you shoot the color chart, try to make it fill up a majority of the frame if possible.
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User muringuets was able to send me some sample Cinema DNG output from his Chronos 1.4 shooting a color target and I was able to take a stab at creating a custom LUT using DaVinci Resolve.
It's not perfect, but it should be a very good starting point, especially for daylight work.
You can download the LUT here:
https://klingerphotography.com/Chronos14/Chronos14_v7_daylight.cube
I think all you need to do is drop it in your DaVinci Resolve LUT folder. On my machine that is here:
C:\ProgramData\Blackmagic Design\DaVinci Resolve\Support\LUT
Below you can see the before and after version of the color chart when the LUT is applied.
Let me know what you think and if this is useful for folks with a Chronos 1.4 trying to shoot in Cinema DNG with V7 of the software.
Thanks!
Marc
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User muringuets was able to send me some sample Cinema DNG output from his Chronos 1.4 shooting a color target and I was able to take a stab at creating a custom LUT using DaVinci Resolve.
It's not perfect, but it should be a very good starting point, especially for daylight work.
You can download the LUT here:
https://klingerphotography.com/Chronos14/Chronos14_v7_daylight.cube
I think all you need to do is drop it in your DaVinci Resolve LUT folder. On my machine that is here:
C:\ProgramData\Blackmagic Design\DaVinci Resolve\Support\LUT
Below you can see the before and after version of the color chart when the LUT is applied.
Let me know what you think and if this is useful for folks with a Chronos 1.4 trying to shoot in Cinema DNG with V7 of the software.
Thanks!
Marc
Thank you Marc!
I just downloaded the LUT, will try on some old data I kept on my SSD for this... I'll let you know how it goes, perhaps I have my own old edits for the same footage to compare!!
Again, thanks so much for the help!!!
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Thank you Marc!
I just downloaded the LUT, will try on some old data I kept on my SSD for this... I'll let you know how it goes, perhaps I have my own old edits for the same footage to compare!!
Again, thanks so much for the help!!!
No problem! I look forward to seeing your results and how well it works for you (and others).
Thanks!
Marc
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No problem! I look forward to seeing your results and how well it works for you (and others).
Thanks!
Marc
Hello everyone, here are the results for the 1.4 LUT mklinger provided
Video 1 - Edited with the 2.1 LUT
https://youtu.be/hk574eqvOSc
Video 1 - Edited with the 1.4 LUT
https://youtu.be/qAiHIHU5jls
Video 2 - Edited with the 2.1 LUT
https://youtu.be/ushuhDhV7P0
Video 2 - Edited with the 1.4 LUT
https://youtu.be/49S8JEYKECo
Video 3 - Edited with the 2.1 LUT
https://youtu.be/wLA-mYE9scc
Video 3 - Edited with the 1.4 LUT
https://youtu.be/sX1ivF2zGCA
Other video edited with no LUT corrections, I did color correction manually, just for comparison
https://youtu.be/_Jvbliyt4As
My thoughts, first a huge thanks to Marc for the LUT and patience explaining everything.
I think it is a huge impromevent from where I was on 0.7.0 FW without LUT adjustments, or using the 2.1 LUT (strong red tint), I'm still figuring out how to properly correct everything, it's hard, sometimes I still tend to be a little heavy on some color tints (a little bit too green for now), and it is very monitor dependent (I'll have my 2 monitors color corrected as soon as possible), but I'll get there.
Really happy with my progress so far, two years and I learn tons everytime I go out to shoot something, thanks everyone for the help here!!! The LUT will definitely help, I'll stay on this FW since it's way faster on save times...
PS. sorry for the videos, mainly out of focus and just straight 1000fps played back at 30fps very slow and boring stuff lol
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No problem! I look forward to seeing your results and how well it works for you (and others).
Thanks!
Marc
Hello everyone, here are the results for the 1.4 LUT mklinger provided
Video 1 - Edited with the 2.1 LUT
https://youtu.be/hk574eqvOSc
Video 1 - Edited with the 1.4 LUT
https://youtu.be/qAiHIHU5jls
Video 2 - Edited with the 2.1 LUT
https://youtu.be/ushuhDhV7P0
Video 2 - Edited with the 1.4 LUT
https://youtu.be/49S8JEYKECo
Video 3 - Edited with the 2.1 LUT
https://youtu.be/wLA-mYE9scc
Video 3 - Edited with the 1.4 LUT
https://youtu.be/sX1ivF2zGCA
Other video edited with no LUT corrections, I did color correction manually, just for comparison
https://youtu.be/_Jvbliyt4As
My thoughts, first a huge thanks to Marc for the LUT and patience explaining everything.
I think it is a huge impromevent from where I was on 0.7.0 FW without LUT adjustments, or using the 2.1 LUT (strong red tint), I'm still figuring out how to properly correct everything, it's hard, sometimes I still tend to be a little heavy on some color tints (a little bit too green for now), and it is very monitor dependent (I'll have my 2 monitors color corrected as soon as possible), but I'll get there.
Really happy with my progress so far, two years and I learn tons everytime I go out to shoot something, thanks everyone for the help here!!! The LUT will definitely help, I'll stay on this FW since it's way faster on save times...
PS. sorry for the videos, mainly out of focus and just straight 1000fps played back at 30fps very slow and boring stuff lol
Your footage is looking pretty good. Definitely don't bother with trying to use the 2.1 LUT with your 1.4. That will just cause you more headaches than it's worth.
Keep an eye on exposure. Your video 1 and 2 look pretty good, but #3 looks a bit underexposed (you should be able to boost this example in post without too much problem). Once you get the colors dialed in to exactly what you want, don't be afraid to boost the saturation a tiny bit to make the video "pop" more.
Overall, it's looking good. Good luck with your future work and I'm glad I could help!
Marc
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There appears to be an issue with the Windows SMB setup. If I configure it on the camera there is no option for mount folder and I can never get the camera to attach. If I use the network / web interface I can set it up successfully and it will function until the camera is powered off. Once the camera powers back up it appears to have forgotten the web based SMB settings.
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Hi All,
Today we released update 0.7.1 with some bugfixes:
- RTSP Live Streaming on VLC no longer times out after a few minutes
- Network File System (NFS) Saving now works with macOS
- Setting trigger delay settings through Trigger I/O Settings -> Trigger Delay -> OK now saves the settings as expected
- Updates to the bootloader were made to handle touchscreen displays from new vendors (not something you'll notice after an update, but cameras built starting in 2022 will feature IPS displays)
As usual, this update is available via Util -> Storage -> Apply Software Update, or with the full sd card image here:
http://debian.krontech.ca/builds/chronos-voyager-20211222.img.xz (http://debian.krontech.ca/builds/chronos-voyager-20211222.img.xz)
Kudos to Marc for all the contributions to LUTs for our community :)
There appears to be an issue with the Windows SMB setup. If I configure it on the camera there is no option for mount folder and I can never get the camera to attach. If I use the network / web interface I can set it up successfully and it will function until the camera is powered off. Once the camera powers back up it appears to have forgotten the web based SMB settings.
Please see: https://www.krontech.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Chronos-SMB-Share-Setup-Guide-1.pdf (https://www.krontech.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Chronos-SMB-Share-Setup-Guide-1.pdf) and email our support team if you still need assistance, thanks!
Please note that our office will be closed from Dec 24 to Jan 3. Happy holidays everyone!
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Hope everyone is doing well!
We've released update 0.7.2 with some more bugfixes:
- When NFS or SMB shares are configured for saving footage to networked drives, the camera will automatically re-connect to the shared drive on reboot
- NFS or SMB credentials configured on the Webpage will be synced with what's shown on the camera's built-in display
As usual, this update is available via Util -> Storage -> Apply Software Update, or with the full sd card image here:
http://debian.krontech.ca/builds/chronos-voyager-20220124.img.xz (http://debian.krontech.ca/builds/chronos-voyager-20220124.img.xz)
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Hello! I am missing the "PLAY" button on the Play page. It was left to the "CLOSE"-Button, now it is gone. Why is this?
Thanks! Martin.
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did you reset or reinstall your Firmware recently?
Had the Same Problem on 0.6.0 see:
https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=637.msg4232#msg4232
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Hope everyone is doing well!
We've released update 0.7.2 with some more bugfixes:
- When NFS or SMB shares are configured for saving footage to networked drives, the camera will automatically re-connect to the shared drive on reboot
- NFS or SMB credentials configured on the Webpage will be synced with what's shown on the camera's built-in display
As usual, this update is available via Util -> Storage -> Apply Software Update, or with the full sd card image here:
http://debian.krontech.ca/builds/chronos-voyager-20220124.img.xz (http://debian.krontech.ca/builds/chronos-voyager-20220124.img.xz)
We are having randomly some freeze of the camera.
We have two cameras at a location that create a digital experience (simulation of wind on the face).
Both units produce randomly the same symptom:
- Back screen frozen
- Loss of network (therefore all api timeout/unresponsive)
Here the settings:
Camera Model: CR14-1.0
Serial Number: 01946
Color Release Version: 0.7.0
FPGA Revision: 3.25
PMIC Firmware Version: 11
Sensor Temperature: 44.5 °C
System Temperature: 48.1 °C
Last Shutdown Reason: 49: AutoPwrOff, Software, PMIC Ack
Windows/SMB Net. Storage: IP: 10.3.26.148 / Mount: Chronos_Footage User/Pass: ****/****
To work around those; we have put some programmable socket to turn off/turn on the camera every day, but still happens randomly.
We have usage of ~20/30 videos daily.
The mechanism of our software that handles the camera:
- Connect to the camera via API on software start (only once a day on control station start)
- If camera respond; inject config and proceed to black calibration
- If camera respond but inject config API/black calibration are failing; reboot camera via API
- On-demand, once fully configured and response properly; we launch a record
- Record process: start record
- Record process: stop record
- Record process: push file to network storage
- Record process: clean camera storage
Please advise.
Cheers,
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I'm not able to perform this update to 0.7.1 on my 1.4 colour camera. I am currently running 0.5.1.
If I try the internet upgrade, I get an apt error saying that the 10 update packages found (all with chronos in their name) cannot be authenticated and that "-y was used without --force-yes". The update fails. After the subsequent automatic reboot, I'm still on 0.5.1. Perhaps there is an error in the update script?
If I try the SD card update method, when I insert the new SD card (which was successfully loaded with the new boot image using Etcher), the camera screen just stays blank and the fan activates for about 1sec every minute or so, but there is no visible progress. Inserting the old SD card restores 0.5.1
Has anyone seem either of these issues? How can I upgrade the firmware on the camera?
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Well, turns out the SD card issue was with the card itself (a Kingston SDC10G2/16GB microHDHC class 10 UHS-I card). This Kingston card did verify properly with Etcher when writing the CD Card, so the fault must be subtle. When I tried a 32BG Samsung Pro Endurance card (also UHS-I), the 0.7.2 boot image worked.
I was running 0.5.1 off an 8GB SanDisk UHS-I card (shipped with the camera?), so I guess you need to pay attention to the quality of the card.
I still had issues with the network upgrade, though, as described above.
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I am experiencing similar problems as user EB described. When trying to update the camera via the internet connection I get the error that the packages cannot be authenticated and that "-y was used without --force-yes". My camera is running on version 0.7.0 Firmware version 11. I would greatly appreciate any advice on this problem.
When trying the SD card update, my camera doesnt boot properly. The fan briefly runs then the camera goes into some form of idle state, where the power button is lit but nothing else happens. Every minute or so, the power status indicator flashes in red and the camera seems to reboot, again briefly turning on the fan.
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Nice to see the 4K12 announcement video, is there any chance that UI and software updates will be backported to the 1.4? It would be very cool to see a unified experience across all models.
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Nice to see the 4K12 announcement video, is there any chance that UI and software updates will be backported to the 1.4? It would be very cool to see a unified experience across all models.
It would be cool if we can get some quality improvements to the 1.4!
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Once we begin shipping the Chronos 4K12 (Feb 2024) and Chronos Q12 (Mar 2024), the software team will continue to make updates. We're working to make the remote control app backwards-compatible with the 1.4 and 2.1-HD, and may also add some more features at that time, so please stay tuned for February regarding potential software updates and new features.
I am experiencing similar problems as user EB described. When trying to update the camera via the internet connection I get the error that the packages cannot be authenticated and that "-y was used without --force-yes". My camera is running on version 0.7.0 Firmware version 11. I would greatly appreciate any advice on this problem.
When trying the SD card update, my camera doesnt boot properly. The fan briefly runs then the camera goes into some form of idle state, where the power button is lit but nothing else happens. Every minute or so, the power status indicator flashes in red and the camera seems to reboot, again briefly turning on the fan.
You may need to update your camera manually (writing the image to the SD card) for now as we are experiencing a few issues with our package servers at the moment. We are looking into it.
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Once we begin shipping the Chronos 4K12 (Feb 2024) and Chronos Q12 (Mar 2024), the software team will continue to make updates. We're working to make the remote control app backwards-compatible with the 1.4 and 2.1-HD, and may also add some more features at that time, so please stay tuned for February regarding potential software updates and new features.
I am experiencing similar problems as user EB described. When trying to update the camera via the internet connection I get the error that the packages cannot be authenticated and that "-y was used without --force-yes". My camera is running on version 0.7.0 Firmware version 11. I would greatly appreciate any advice on this problem.
When trying the SD card update, my camera doesnt boot properly. The fan briefly runs then the camera goes into some form of idle state, where the power button is lit but nothing else happens. Every minute or so, the power status indicator flashes in red and the camera seems to reboot, again briefly turning on the fan.
You may need to update your camera manually (writing the image to the SD card) for now as we are experiencing a few issues with our package servers at the moment. We are looking into it.
Thanks Sanjay! Is there a way the team can look at the aliasing problems I encounter with texts and specular highlights with the Chronos. I know the proper solution would be an anti-aliasing filter in front of the sensor. My workaround right now is using an anti-aliasing filter on top of the lens but it's not ideal. Appreciate all the hardwork the team is doing! : ) Also, can we get the 100,000 fps back in the official firmware for the 1.4? I'm weary of compiling the code myself.
Btw, this is an example of the aliasing I'm seeing in anothers video. Look at the 15:20 mark with the lettering on helmet. That's one of the situations where the aliasing pops up. Only way I can reduce that kind of aliasing is using anti-aliasing filters on top of the lens with my 1.4 but again it's not ideal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFOOY8MjChc&t=564s
UPDATE: Sanjay btw, I know in the early days of the Chronos 1.4 being released, the team was trying to see if an HDR mode or Log Profile could be implemented to maybe get better highlight and shadow detail. Can that be looked into again once you guys start looking at possible firmware updates for the older Chronos models?
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Hi everyone!
I bought my Chronos 2.1HD about 2 years ago and was wondering if there was an firmware upgrade in the meantime.
When I connect my Chronos to the Ethernet cable that feeds my PC with internet I only get to the point where the Chronos is
"Updating Package Lists" but not beyond...
There is also a lot of 404s in that log shown, so I am not sure if I am doing anything wrong or if
the files no longer exist on the server my Chronos wants to access...
When I load the 32gb SD card with the latest image file from this thread via Elenabatcher there is no local drive showing up in the Chronos either.
Any ideas?
Best regards
Dominik
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Hi everyone!
I bought my Chronos 2.1HD about 2 years ago and was wondering if there was an firmware upgrade in the meantime.
When I connect my Chronos to the Ethernet cable that feeds my PC with internet I only get to the point where the Chronos is
"Updating Package Lists" but not beyond...
There is also a lot of 404s in that log shown, so I am not sure if I am doing anything wrong or if
the files no longer exist on the server my Chronos wants to access...
When I load the 32gb SD card with the latest image file from this thread via Elenabatcher there is no local drive showing up in the Chronos either.
Any ideas?
Best regards
Dominik
I believe the 404s you're noticing are because the Debian packages it's trying to download were archived and moved to a different address. It's probably fine to ignore those 404s- the Chronos firmware packages should still update successfully.
Alternatively you could follow the manual updating instructions documented here: https://www.krontech.ca/software-resources/
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Thanks. The problem is that the updating process won't go further than that screenshot that I attached. From reading the manual I would expect it to lead to a "install now yes/no button" pop up after that. But it is just stuck there... far longer than 3 minutes.
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Thanks. The problem is that the updating process won't go further than that screenshot that I attached. From reading the manual I would expect it to lead to a "install now yes/no button" pop up after that. But it is just stuck there... far longer than 3 minutes.
Sounds like the simplest option is to remove the microSD card and flash it with the latest firmware.
Otherwise, if you're feeling brave, you could SSH into your Chronos and update your package sources. Once your sources are updated to reflect the archived Jessie packages, the Chronos firmware updater should start working for you again.
sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/backports-debian.list
deb [arch=armel] http://archive.debian.org/debian jessie-backports main contrib non-free
deb [arch=armel] http://archive.debian.org/debian stretch-backports main contrib non-free
sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list.d/multistrap-debian.list
deb [arch=armel] http://archive.debian.org/debian jessie main contrib non-free
deb-src http://archive.debian.org/debian jessie main contrib non-free
Make sure to run `apt update` after modifying the above two files to reflect those archive.debian.org urls
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Thanks, hummingbirdography,
I got it to 7.0.1 with flashing the micro SD card with the .img ✌️
Best regards,
Dominik
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Dear All,
there seems to be a newer version than 7.1 (which is linked on the website) in the repository. Namely the 20220124 build. Is this more recent? what are the changes? Is there further development of the 1.4 and 2.1 firmware planned or even already available?
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Dear All,
there seems to be a newer version than 7.1 (which is linked on the website) in the repository. Namely the 20220124 build. Is this more recent? what are the changes? Is there further development of the 1.4 and 2.1 firmware planned or even already available?
I think the only difference between firmware version 0.7.1 and 0.7.2 (the 20220124 build) is automatic re-connection to NFS and SMB network shares on camera startup, and this is still the latest version.