Messages

181

General high-speed discussion / Re: Processing DNG raw

« on: February 04, 2022, 05:48:09 AM »

Do there a way to record non DNG and just export directly into mp4 on the camera?

You can Save .mp4 Files directly from the Camera, see page 27 of the User Manual https://www.krontech.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/RE-PDEV-10009-Chronos-User-Manual-Full-Software-Version-0.7.0.pdf

182

General high-speed discussion / Re: DNG Raw Chronos 2.1-HD

« on: February 02, 2022, 05:32:37 AM »

I have posted some DNG Files and -Sequences across the Forum, you can use those if you want (i can link them Here, if you cant find them).
 If you want to see / test something Special i can also Shoot something to your Request and upload here. I can provide comparison Shots with a Nikon D500 and have a Color Checker, let me know what you need.
 

183

Software Dev / Re: Timecode Trigger on "PLAY"

« on: January 28, 2022, 03:08:12 PM »

If the Requirement isnt [...] to do this fully embedded Into an Single HDMI Connection, there turns out to be the Option to Trigger [...] via a LANC Connector.

 Well this was just something i would suggest, as that seems realistic to get done with some reasonable amount of effort and Time as an user (with some help from other People depending on your Skill-Set).
 If you dont want to do some Serious Reverse Engineering on the HDMI Signals used here, or otherwise solve this via the LANC Port and Ethernet/ USB-Port of the Camera, pretty much your Only version would be to get into Modding the Firmware of the Chronos to your needs.
 Sure, that would make for a Cleaner Rig, with only a HDMI Cable Needed, but that would assume that the Hardware used in the Chronos would even be able to use the HEAC Capabilities of the HDMI Port (i know far to little about the Hardware used here, to be able to tell if that is supported / even Possible on the Hardware-Side. If i was you, and this is the Route you want to go with this, i would make sure to have Krontech confirm, that the Hardware can even handle that, before you put a bunch of effort into Firmware Modding / Coding).
 Also you would then need to somehow either convince Krontech that this is important / useful enough of a Feature for them to work on (and even then it would probably not be top Priority, and still take a fair bit until its available in a Final Firmware Release; but their Opinions on this Might be different, only way to figure out would be to ask them) and eventually add; or code this yourself or find someone to do that for you (in which case you would end up with an "experimental" Firmware, which might introduce more bugs than you would gain benefits from with the HDMI Trigger Signal. Not sure if i would wanted to rely on some Firmware i Hacked up myself in a Professional Environment, especially with Costumers and People you shoot for looking over your shoulder.).
 If you feel Confident enough with coding, sure, go for that, its just Software after all, you can run whatever OS on the Camera, even write some completely custom one from Scratch if you wanted to.
 If you ask Krontech be prepared for them maybe saying no; and even if, it taking a fair bit of time.
 .
 The Solution with the LANC-Input of the External Recorder is just what i would feel most confident and Comfortable with, if i was in your Situation, which in My opinion would also be the Least amount of Work (if you Factor in Bug-Testing and -Fixing if you Mod the Firmware yourself), Most Reliable in Actual Use. Also Available basically NOW, as its really not that difficult to set this up, given you can figure out the Camera API, and Put a bunch of Code together, Hardware Side of things is like 30 Minutes Work for a Functioning Rig, maybe Half a Day or a Full Day if you want to add some Case for it to look nice and hold together for longer than a day.

184

Software Dev / Re: Timecode Trigger on "PLAY"

« on: January 28, 2022, 11:17:43 AM »

If the Requirement isnt (as i initially assumed from the Original Post at https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=730.0 ) to do this fully embedded Into an Single HDMI Connection, there turns out to be the Option to Trigger (at least the Blackmagic ones, have not checked for Atomos, see Page 9 of this PDF or the Attached Screenshot https://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/629692.pdf ) via a LANC Connector.
 You can buy Record-Buttons for LANC-Connections fairly Cheap, and i assume those would contain some kind of Electronics and a Basic button.
 Given that the Chronos Cameras also have an API, which would allow to either Start Playback via the API from an External Computer/ Device or at least get the Information, that the Camera is currently Starting or stopping the Playback of a Recording, it should be Possible to make a Small Box with some of those Single-Board-PCs or something like that.
 Ideally the "Box" would connect to either USB or Ethernet on the Camera (Ethernet most likely will also need some kind of a Ethernet Switch to make a Working Network, USB should work without that, if its Possible to do via USB), and Listen for Start Playback, after which the "Box" would activate the Switch on the LANC-Button Thing (would need to be modified. Removing the Original Record Button from there, and wire that into some Output of the Small PC in the "Box") to start Recording on the Blackmagic Recorder.
 If that is not Possible, The Computer would need to be Equipped with some Sort of Input Button (if there is no other way, a programmable single Key USB Keyboard with some Macro to run a Code would work too), to send a Start Replay Command to the Chronos, and that External Button would need to be used to Start and Stop the Replay on the Camera each time.
 .
 Now i am not a Programmer or know how to do any of those Fancy things with these Small Computer, but i attached a bunch of Screenshots from the API documentation along with the Path on where to find that (Camera needs to be connected to the Same Local Network as the PC, IP needs to be Set to Whatever your Cameras IP actually is, this is just Valid for mine at this current time; or just set a Static IP on yours).
 Some People smarter than me in terms of coding will probably be able to make this a real thing, thats about all i can help here.
 If you find nobody else, i guess clkdiv would have the Skills to pull that off. He made some Crazy rigs with Single-Board PCs, so if you cant find any other help here, he would be the Guy i would go ask (i can also call him and just ask, if needed. He probably doesnt follow whats happening on the Forum to closely, so he probably wont read this or the other Topic unless you or I link him that, so maybe try via PM on the Forum), if he isnt able to, he could at least tell you what to do or who else to ask.
 

185

Chronos User Discussion / Re: USB-C ssd

« on: January 28, 2022, 05:50:01 AM »

Hi, this Idea has already been discussed very recently here:
 https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=721.msg4991#msg4991
 I personally doubt it would work but have not tried.
 I assume most of these eSata to USB-C Cables are meant for using these Drive Enclosures and External Hard-Drives with eSATA Connector on them, which where somewhat Popular for a While, with Any Supported USB-C Host Device, and are probably all only usable in that direction. USB in general does work quite differently than Sata, and all thats happening here is probably some Integrated Chip into the Cable, that does just add an SATA Controller to the USB (-Bus). I dont see how that could be done to somehow make a Sata Port into an USB Port, but maybe there is a Way. If you know of any such Cable, that somehow Claims to allow to use an USB-C Drive on an eSATA Host Device or even work in both directions, please Put a Link here, otherwise i am almost sure, that will not work.
 .
 If you want to use An USB-Storage Device, you can Still do that, as the eSATA port on the Chronos also doubles as USB Type A Connector, but performance will be lower than eSATA generally. eSATA is still the Fastest Way to write Footage from RAM to Permanent Storage on the Chronos 1.4 and 2.1.
 

186

Chronos User Discussion / Re: "Rec signal" for external recorder on replay

« on: January 27, 2022, 01:22:36 PM »

Did search a bit more, but only thing more i could figure out for now, is that it is more or less "Standard Ethernet" for the Most part it seems, but somehow just using Pin 14 and 19 of the HDMI (cant quite Wrap my head around how that would work, but probably something like these Early Ethernet Standards that would only need a Single Pair of Wires and could use Connectors like BNC or Straight up Unshielded, twisted Telephone Wire for the Lower Speeds), so a Memory Oscilloscope on those two Pins and some guy that knows to decipher Binary Stuff should get you mostly to the Point where you could figure out what kind of signal (/signal-chain) the External Recorder Expects to Start (/Stop) Recording.
 HDMI seems to have somewhat of an "startup Sequence", which i guess you still also would need to pay some attention to, if you do a custom solution like this, Pin 19 seems to be used to figure out if something got connected as well, so you most likely cant just remove them from the Cable to feed some external Signal into from elsewhere.
 Found some Sony Patents, which show a bit of what is going on when Connecting / Disconnecting the HDMI Port to a Device and all the Data/ Communication that is Expected to verify its Connected to a Valid Device.
 https://patents.google.com/patent/US20110206355A1/en
 https://patents.google.com/patent/EP2405654A1/en
 Maybe these will help a bit with your Project.
 

187

Chronos User Discussion / Re: "Rec signal" for external recorder on replay

« on: January 27, 2022, 12:48:00 PM »

Not having worked with camera Control/ Interactive Link between External Recorders and such to Cameras myself, i just had a look at the Z-Cam, cause i know that one would need to do that.
 https://www.slashcam.com/news/single/Atomos-Ninja-V-Firmware-Update-ermoeglicht-ProRes-R-15954.html
 Given that it is apparently unable to communicate with the Camera when RAW is Recorded, which obviously should use way more Bandwidth than standard HDMI, i guess they are just using some kind of Ethernet Capability of the HDMI Standard here; not only to do the Communication back to the Camera, but also to Push the Additional Data for RAW Format here back and Forth. In case of RAW Recording that "spare Bandwidth" the HDMI does not take up will be used for Image data, so it wont work there.
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#HDMI_Ethernet_and_Audio_Return_Channel
 I however highly doubt, that anything this in depth about the HDMI Standard or the Communication Protocol used here would be fully Public (have not spent more than 2 Minutes Looking tbf., so it might, but i dont think so. Its just like Camera Lens Mounts and such, usually you need to Buy the Full Specification and Documentation and sign an NDA to not make it Publicly available in any Capacity, Maybe even also a License to use it if for a commercial Product.).
 .
 Your best Bet would Probably be to figure out, if you can somehow get hold of Blackmagic or Atomos Customer Support, ideally an Actual Person to directly Speak to, and ask them on how to do that. Othewise (if you cant find any more info online), your only other option would most likely be to find a way to extract and Analyze the Ethernet part of the Signal that is going on with these Recorders and Reverse-Engineer that, however one would do that (more of a Hardware Guy myself, i try to avoid coding and Signal Processing stuff if i can...).
 .
 But in Short, Probably some Kind of Ethernet signal.
 Might not even be super Complicated, should just be some sort of command/ Status update the Camera gives out via HDMI if i understand correctly how that would work for start Recording on Record Button press at the Camera.

188

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Synced Chronos 2.1 only records 79 frames

« on: January 27, 2022, 06:34:20 AM »

I'm rather reluctant to try new sync methods right now given that there is already a bug in the software that appears to have got progressively worse with time, but I will definitely try the other methods if I don't hear from Krontech soon (going on 10 days now after three emails about this).

 .
 I just had a look at their Twitter, and while the uploaded / reposted (idk. how Twitter works, not a Twitter Person myself) a lot of Clips/ footage there VERY Frequently at Start of year, there are no posts at all after 17. January. So maybe they are on vacation or something?
 What Email did you use to contact them at btw? the Info@ one or the support@ ?
 From all my correspondence i had with Krontech so far, i understand it as, that the info@ is more of an General Purpose Mail Adress, to just contact them, but you might will have to wait a bit, also seems not to be checked (or at least processed) as frequently or with as much urgency; sometimes, if they are Taking a Break or need to get stuff done elswhere maybe not even at all for a while.
 The support@ seems to be exclusively for urgent or very important stuff, and from what i seen is a lot Quicker, if you need to get an Answer ASAP. Probably still a good idea to not "abuse" that one, and still send anything that isnt crazy urgent to the Normal info@ ; but i think your Case would classify as urgent, from what you wrote.

189

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Adding a timer to Chronos2.1 Recordings

« on: January 27, 2022, 05:53:51 AM »

https://www.krontech.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/RE-PDEV-10009-Chronos-User-Manual-Full-Software-Version-0.7.0.pdf
 .
 On Page 88 / 89 of the Cameras user Manual you can see the Option "Text Overlay" explained. This will add an Timestamp to each frame of your Footage when Saved as H.264 or TIFF Format.
 If you want to preserve the Original Quality of the Clip and not use Advanced Software (there is a lot of professional Editing Software that can Add a timer, but thats usually not super easy to just do for anyone who has not worked with such Software before. If you still want to, look up some Tutorials about it on YT, there are Plenty, else i can also Link some, if you dont know what to exactly search for); you could easily just enable the Timestamp Text Overlay, save your Footage once with the Overlay /Timestamp, and then disable the Overlay, and save again "clean" without Overlay.
 That would be a fairly simple way to do that in-camera, and even though it takes a bit of time to save everything twice, would probably still be faster or at least about as fast as having to edit each one of the Clips to add a Timer in An Editing Software, and then Also Render it.

190

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Synced Chronos 2.1 only records 79 frames

« on: January 27, 2022, 05:37:36 AM »

My Errors i got where mostly related to Image Quality, Crashes (camera randomly Freezing up completely, UI wont respond at all, need to force-reboot) and Dropped / corrupted Frames (in this order, first to happen most, last least likely to happen) when using Gain Settings of 12dB and up, sometimes combined with weird framerates like 400fps or lower, but sometimes also at max Framerate for given Resolution. I found the Resolutions listed in the Drop-Down Menu to be most stable in general, probably because these have also been tested most before Release.
 Also generally Lower gain settings gave me the impression these things where less likely to happen, than at higher settings, but i could be very wrong here; absolutely nothing backed up by any Numbers or Methodical Testing.
 I somehow feel like these issues showed up a lot less since about Firmware Version 6.0 or so, but could also just be me not playing around as much with weird and Extreme Settings, as i used to back then...?

191

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Synced Chronos 2.1 only records 79 frames

« on: January 26, 2022, 01:37:30 PM »

Also, looking at your settings, i am just wondering, have you tried the same Setup with  0dB analog Gain/ 0dB Digital Gain?
 would be interesting to see if that would result in the same amount of failed Recordings as with the 6 / 12 dB setting.
 Had some various Weird things happen in the Past and on past Firmware versions on High gain Settings sometimes (though i would not consider that especially high yet...), but never tested that in combination with anything related to external Triggers and such.
 Might be worth testing, if it runs more Stable on base-Gain setting. (=0dB).

192

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Synced Chronos 2.1 only records 79 frames

« on: January 26, 2022, 01:30:30 PM »

Thanks!
 I meanwhile spent a few minutes reading up on different Trigger and Syncing Options on the Chronos.
 https://www.krontech.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/RE-PDEV-10009-Chronos-User-Manual-Full-Software-Version-0.7.0.pdf
 Have a look at page 23.
 Exposure Trigger Should do what you want.
 Is sure a bit more work and Bulky to set up than just linking two cameras via a single BNC, but i consider that well worth it, if Footage is Critical, cant be Replaced, and you spend a lot of time and Possibly Money on it; especially if the BNC Method has proven to be bugged.
 .
 Also never used that mode, but from what i understand, you would just set up one of the Two other Inputs on each of the Cameras up as "Exposure Trigger" Input, Set Shutter angle/ Shutter time on Camera as usual, and basically set your Framerate via a external Frequency input (like 1kHz = 1000fps) from a Square Wave generator. Trigger as usual via BNC, but would need Separate Signal Paths for both Cameras, so like a Trigger Button with two separate Contacts inside it, and A BNC cable to both of those. Also A Cable for Frequency Input to any used Camera from the Frequency Generator.
 .
 Should from what i think to understand be a much more Solid and fail-save setup, and you should end up with absolutely Synced Frames.

193

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Synced Chronos 2.1 only records 79 frames

« on: January 26, 2022, 01:10:21 PM »

Krontech is sometimes not the fastest to respond to such requests/ bugs which cause serious trouble, but i guess they will probably respond eventually, when ever that might be.
 .
 I dont have 2 Chronos Cameras to be even able to replicate this, so i cant help much here, and also never even ever tried to figure out how i would link two of them Together.
 But just wanted to say: Cant open the Images attached to this post. (never seen a .heic file, what even is that or how to open that?)
 .
 Also just a very blunt idea which just came up in my Head, without any actual real world Experience on working with Two of these Cameras, but is there a way to somehow sync these in any other way, like external frequency input (if they even need to record synced frames, otherwise just let them run individually), and trigger both separately at the Same time, if Usage is of critical importance?

194

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Mixed images in segmented mode

« on: January 26, 2022, 09:40:43 AM »

There kind of is, but i am not sure if the Problem itself causing that is well enough known to be able to fix that. The Framerate counter behaves weirdly and inconsistent sometimes, and saving small numbers of frames has had Glitches as long as i know.
 .
 I am not aware of a Known workaround, if you actually need an exact amount number of frames for each Segment, other than to just save a bunch more than you need and delete / ignore the ones that are not needed later (thats what i did, just make sure, i have enough. if i need 25 Frames, save ~40 just to be sure).
 .
 Existing Discussions (which i am aware of) about this Topic and Related issues:
 .
 https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=659.0
 https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=565.msg3892#msg3892

195

Chronos User Discussion / Re: SSD Cage for Chronos 1.4/2.1-HD - 3D-printable

« on: January 17, 2022, 11:49:20 AM »

Having the disk below, like a winder/V-grip is a good idea. I opted against above/below due to my need for solid tripod mounts and the fact that I wanted a better grip for handheld shooting.

 Was also thinking about an Above-Below solution for an External Battery (V-Mount+ Voltage Converter for much longer Battery life than internal ones could Provide) and SSD.
 But the Top is pretty much the Only Place i can put an Monitor onto, and the Bottom also is kind of needed for Tripod Mounting, and even though i sometimes do quite a bit of Handheld Shooting as well, i need to change between a Tripod Mounted Camera and Handheld Shooting very quick and sometimes often, so no time to Play around with removing SSDs from the Bottom or something like that.
 Also, the Center of Gravity on that Camera is already fairly high, when used with an External Screen (at least on some of the Smaller Video Heads i am using, not too much of a Problem on the Big ones), and Putting anything below the Camera additionally would make this much worse for Tripod use.
 When you posted that Grip Design, i honestly still was not completely sure how i would do a proper SSD mount for that Cage, but about where you put it would also have been pretty much the only Place to have it, without being in the Way somehow.
 I Thought about using something like this however:
 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/replacement_for/1488834-REG/tilta_ta_bsp_v_g_bmpcc4k_v_mount_battery.html
 With Tripod-Quick-Release Mounts (i am Personally using a Arca-Swiss Style Quick Release System on almost anything) on top and Bottom of it, so i can very Quickly remove it if needed, or just keep it on, and Mount the Whole Rig to the Tripod, for example if Battery is Low on the Camera, but i need to finish a Save or something.
 Also need to figure out how to Rig this Adapter Plate i already have
 https://www.globalmediapro.com/dp/A2HG93/Globalmediapro-VLP-U-V-Mount-to-DC-Multi-Voltage-Converter/
 To that Tilta Baseplate / modify that to Replace the Existing V-Mount.
 For Handheld Shooting it wouldnt bother me nearly as much to have something below the Camera itself, as that would honestly be the Only Place to put the V-Mount Battery where it wouldnt annoy me (besides maybe a Belt-Clip with a long Cable, but that has its own Draw-Backs).
 While i am At it, i might as well add some Way to Mount Rails to the Tilta Thing, or make a Custom new Top Plate for it to replace the Existing one, so i would have a Rig, where i can very Quickly add Rails and a ton of Battery Capacity (even Recharge the Internal one on the Go while Shooting), and just as fast also remove it again.
 But first i need to Finish that Cage. Then i will see how i end up doing all of that.
 .
 @mkonrad:
 That Tilta Baseplate thing might also be a good way for you to mount an SSD, or any Similar Product like this, if you dont mind having it below the Camera and have a big/ Serious Video Head (i sure hope so/ would expect you to have one, if you shoot with RED Cameras and a Flex4K), so the Higher Center of Gravity is not an issue.