Messages

556

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Infrared Footage

« on: November 19, 2020, 07:21:43 AM »

Also, since i get asked that very often and also see Questions about that here on the Forum a lot, here is some Quick "Guide" to remove the Hot Mirror for IR/UV stuff or Full-Spectrum Use of the Chronos (2.1 shown here, should be the Same or very simmilar on the 1.4, but please double Check on yours if you want to remove it there, never did THAT on an 1.4...). Sorry for the Blurry images, wasnt in the Mood to set up an Tripod for this, so this is just shot by hand, hope they are still sharp enough to show what is going on.
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So, first Remove the Small Screw from the Bottom Of the Camera, screw it out completely. Then Drop out the Small Brass Rod that sits behind the Screw. Make sure to Remove the Brass Rod bevore Removing the Mount, to make sure to not drop it on th Sensor (or Hot Mirror). When Screw and Brass Rod are Removed, Screw out the Mount. I just made a Small Dot with a small Black Marker Where the CS-Mount Writing and The Line sits, so its a Lot easier to align it again when you need to remove it and Put it back on a lot. You would propably still want to propperly adjust your backfocus after that, but for my use its mostly good enough, and Pretty fast. When The Mount is Removed, two Small Screws and An small holding Plate becomes Visible. Those Two Philipps head Screws need to be removed, but again, be very carefull to not drop anything on the ot mirror or Sensor. Then, when the Plate is removed, the Hot Mirror itself can be taken out. Make sure to prepare Some Soft Clean spot to put it and avoid touching the Surface, for example by holding it at the Corners. After that, just Put the Mount + Brass Rod + Screw back in there in reverse order (or leave them out, if you use alternative Mounting solutions), and you are Ready to shoot.

557

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Infrared Footage

« on: November 19, 2020, 07:00:48 AM »

It wont Let me upload the DNG files for some Weird reason, allways get an error trying to post about Security Check for the Files failed, even though they are straight from the SD-Card from the Chronos...? However, i hope you get the Idea from the PNGs i posted. If you still want the DNGs, i can Try posting them again later or try sending them per E-Mail (Send me an PM about that, if you want to do that).

558

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Infrared Footage

« on: November 19, 2020, 06:48:53 AM »

Its Quite Cloudy and Dark here right now, so best thing i can come up at the moment with is a Quick comparison shot here on my desk. Lighting by my usual Daily Desk lighting aka. 2x 50W LED-Panels overhead, Light is unchanged between shots. All Three are taken at 60fps /359° /0dB. Exposure is adjusted by aperture, for the IR shot it was around f/1.4, for the IR+Vis it should have been around f/4. Lens used for this little Comparison is my Schneider-Kreuznach Xenon 50mm f/0,95; very sharp Lens in the Center, but gets a little Funky towards the Corners, with large Aperture Settings, so the IR Shot is a bit more blurry because of That. All images taken with removed Internal Hot Mirror, Vis Image with an Added Heliopan Digital Filter (IR/UV Filter) in front of the Lens, IR image taken with an Fotga Fader ND IR at an Setting around 600nm; IR+Vis Image Taken Without any additional Filters. Original DNG files are also uploaded here, the PNG ones are just adjusted for White balance, and some Tonemapping, otherwise untouched.

559

Chronos User Discussion / Re: External storage options

« on: November 17, 2020, 01:26:10 PM »

Just posted on another thread (SSD case one), I tested a M2 NVME drive with poor results. It connects through USB, so not sure if that's the problem, anyway, managed to get only 8fps...

Have you tried connecting the m.2 directly via SATA Port? Should be Faster according to the First link in the Reply i posted above...?

560

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Improoving Cooling on the 2.1 Sensor /Experimental

« on: November 15, 2020, 08:26:45 AM »

Today i finally got around to start Milling out an Copper Heatsink, but sadly i messed up with one Measurement on the Contact pad for the Sensor when rough-Milling, and now its a full Millimeter to small, so i have to start over again another Day. Surface finish i am Getting on the Finished Surfaces themself, is so good that i would not even Bother to do any grinding or Polishing on them For now. But first i need to make one in the first place, without reading the dimensions from the wrong pad...

561

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Improoving Cooling on the 2.1 Sensor /Experimental

« on: November 13, 2020, 01:45:18 PM »

You're pretty much on top of everything, I've read your post about the Noctua fan, nice to see the results.

Lapping the cooler won't do any help because of the thermal pad, correct. I probably didn't make myself clear in my previous comment, but I meant that it would be preferable to pick a thermal pad with a better conductivity (Gelid has some fancy ones last time I looked)

I like the idea of carving fins.

Also, from what I read, a lot of the problems in image quality derive from heating, so you need to keep doing black calibration every now and then...

Yes, a better Thermal pad would also be very good improovement. Need to do some Research though, cause i am not really that much into Thermal pads tbh. I know a bit about thermal paste, but no expert in that field, but Thermal pads i know very little about. Never actually bought any so far, but worked with them, if they where allready in whatever Devices. Also i dont know what is even in there right now. I expect some rather generic thermal pad with an reasonable price-Performance value, which still performs pretty good, but for sure nothing overly fancy. I am sure, there are better ones, but would have to find out about what that would be then.
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 Carving finns would need to increase the Size of the Heatsink by quite a bit to even have anything to Carve into. There is room, so i think i will end up doing it. However, i will start to do an 1:1 reproduction of the Original one to get an propper comparison Value. Going Straight with a Heatsink with fins would be somewhat unfair. From the 1:1 Copper one, i will see how much room there is to extend Fins out of the Block itself.
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 There are a bunch of problems with Image Quality. First of all, there is everything that isnt really Temperature, that would be Signal Processing and optimisation of Readout. Those Lines that can be very visible are mostly that i assume. Temperature wont affect those things not that mutch, if at all. They are caused by different things, and as i heard, should be improoved by an next little bit with the upcoming Firmware Update.
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 Then There is Random Sensor noise. That one is actually Highly affected by Temperature.
 And then there is also The Combination of the Two, when the Camera tries to remove all the Weird stuff the Sensor does for different Reasons. Main Problem Here is, that Temperature usually changes a lot, especially if the Camera is just Turned on. As i Said, quite a bit of the Cooling is Passive also, and Since the Body is a huge Billet of Aluminum, this thermal Mass first needs to get up to temperature bevore it stabilizes into an Equilibrium. From all the Testing i did, after like 1 to 1,5 Hours the Camera reaches a Very stable temperature, which only deviates by 1,5°C or less, if Room Temperature is constant. Up until a Stable State is Reached, Temperature allways Changes noticeable, even in the Short time from Doing a Black Calibration to actually starting a Recording. If you do an Black Calibration once its on a Stable Temperature, The Calibration usually doesnt run away from the actual sensor Noise that much or will even Stay where it should be. Still would propably not hurt to do a Black Calibration every now and Then when Shooting for Hours, even when warmed up.
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While now the Lines and Weird Stuff is propably mostly Software, and the Exposure/ Sensitivity and Random Noise is mostly Temperature CHANGE, there is yet an other problem, Absolute Noise Levels. When the Camera needs to adjust for More Noise or just basic different exposure for different pixels/ Rows (which gets worse the hotter the Sensor runs), it needs to bend the Values from the Sensor More, then if it had not to do that by that much. As a result of the Heavy adjustments the Camera needs to do for an Hotter image, even if it gets rid of most of the weird looking stuff, it will still mean a lower Dynamic Range as a result (At least in theory, this is kinda the Point of this whole project to find out, How much difference it really makes in the Real World, cause in Theory Colder (A very Constant "cool" Temperature, big problem with "good" cooling is, that the Camera will get very "quick" and responsive to enviromental Temperature Changes, as Heat is exchanged a lot faster, and as we learned earlier, even a few °C can Cause a big difference in Noise and Exposure, resulting in very visible Noise or other Image Artifacts. Because of this, the Huge Thermal Mass of the Chronos Camera Body is actually pretty good for Image Quality, once it is heated up = Has Reached A Stable Temp.) Overall Temperature Level should have Less Noise, and because of that also Higher Dynamic Range.

562

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Improoving Cooling on the 2.1 Sensor /Experimental

« on: November 13, 2020, 12:15:10 PM »

Well I wouldn't go for water cooling, although switching the aluminum passive cooler for a copper one, with proper sanding and polishing on the contact surface and a proper thermal paste (it's an adhesive right now, need to study better options for that part) should be the best option for a passive cooler.

I'm not very familiar with the inner parts of the camera yet, but passive coolers get hot really fast, so, unless there's a good air flow inside the camera, switching for copper won't be so beneficial. Assuming a good airflow it shoud drop the sensor temperature on a few degrees celsius.

I would love to see the technical drawings for the cooler, I'd get it done.

Sorry for my English 

I posted my measurements above, those should be reasonably accurate.
 It also isnt really Thermal Adhesive, its a pretty thick thermal pad.
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 As i posted in an other Thread yesterday, i just replaced the Stock fan with an Noctua one, and am not yet done with Temperature testing, but from what i can tell from now, the 11% less airflow on paper for the Noctua will result in about 4 to 5°C increase in Temperature with partially blocked intakes and a little less difference with fully open intake holes. So the Static pressure of the Stock fan makes a bigger difference if something is in the Way of the Airflow. I am also planing on putting an 40x40x28 (Will need to be mounted outside the Camera Body) High RPM, High Static Pressure Server fan on there to test if MORE Airflow does actually help a lot with cooling. The one i found laying around has DOUBLE the Airflow compared to the Stock Fan of the Chronos, which should show some noticeable difference, if airflow had an huge influence on Sensor Temperature. The Noctua Fan Mod i did there is mainly because of the Noise. Now with the Noctua its so silent, i actually forgot that i had it just sitting there on my desk running while temp testing, which absolutely wont happen with the Stock fan...
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 The Thing about the Watercooling is, i can easily force the sensor to below room Temperature, at a constant temperature. I will not go down below dew point, because for obvious reasons i dont want to deal with water condensating on the Outside of the Cooler, but just above that should be fine. Aiming for something like 15°C Heatsink Temp, which should work out to 20°C or well Below for the Sensor itself. Right now, sensor Temperature is sitting somewhere between 45 to 52°C for all the Testing i did at 21,5 to 25,5°C Room Temperature with the different Fans and sometimes partially blocket ventilation holes. Purpose of reaching such a low Sensor Temperature is to find out if Temperature will have a significant impact on Image Quality, more specifically Noise Levels and Dynamic range. Keep in mind, i could also run hot water through there, Turning it into a Water-Heating-Block. So i can easily test a huge Temperature Range with very stable temperatures.
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 Actually using some kind of water-Cooling Setup in the Camera for Daily use isnt very practical and i also wouldnt reccomend that.
 But the Copper Block is propably what i will end up using. I assume that just replacing the existing Aluminum Sensor Heatsink with Coper Material in the Same dimensions will proppably make back the few °C i lost with the Noctua, which would allready be huge, so same Temps as a Stock Chronos but Way more silent, without any crazy solution. Replacing a Fan and using a different Material for the Sensor heatsink isnt that crazy to do, and i can even realistically See Krontech maybe even doing this at some point in the Future for their cameras, if it turns out to be working well, isnt that mutch more Work/ effort to do.
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 As of now the Cooling of the Sensor itself is technically actually partialy passive cooling (The Camera body itself takes away a lot of the Heat from the Sensor itself, which is of course somewhat cooled by the Fan. I think the Fan is mainly there to also make sure nothing else in there overheats.). This little Heatsink thing shown there is more or less just a "bridge" for the Heat to then go into the Metall body of the Camera. Of course A lot of airflow will lead to better cooling, since there is still a ton of surface on the Camera body itself and also a little bit on the Heatsink itself, and also on the Sensor and Circut boards. But there isnt really fins or something to really increasy the Surface Area to get the Heat away there more efficciently. Speaking about cameras overall, this is pretty much allready Way better Sensor cooling Than About any "usual" Video Camera or DSLR/DSLM has (Metall body with an Actual heatsink connected to the Sensor AND an fan!), but that Sensor in the Chronos is also doing way more serious work than most of those Sensors, and because of that also puts out a lot more Heat.
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 I might even go as far as to Modify the current original design by Krontech for the Sensor Heatsink a bit and add fins (There Seems to be quite a bit of space for Fins or someting) or even Heatpipes (actually found some Heatpipes laying around in my pile of old Server cooling and got to play with them a bit, seems doable, but certainly tricky to do in such a small space, but would help a lot to get away the Heat FAST there) for my own Camera, but for sure no Watercooling of any sort. Not even I am that crazy to go with a Watercooled Chronos for Daily use....
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 About Lapping the Heatsink, sure i could get that done or do it myself, but i think i would start at replacing the Fat Thermal Pad between there first, since with that in between there, this seems like a waste of time. Or at least replace it with a thinner one, if you want the best possible cooling solution. But that would in turn mean that you would need to Modify the Dimensions, which i dont want to do for the Contacting surfaces. An other Problem with getting good contact there is, that you dont have any kind of Spring Loaded Mounting there like you usualy have on an CPU/GPU-Style Cooler. This Little Heatsink Thing is Straight up bolted to the Camera body itself. So if you get anything just a little bit off or missaligned, bad things will happen. So the Thermal Pad Kind of needs to be there to allow for Some Imperfections and Tollerances and also Mounting. If you wanted to go with an direct Metal-to-Sensor Contact Style Cooling, you will need to come up with an completely different cooling concept, which i dont really need or want to do, unless it turns out, Temperature Matters a lot for noise, then this idea is maybe worth to think about more.
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 #EDIT:Grammar

563

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Post Chronos 2.1 clips here!

« on: November 12, 2020, 03:04:31 PM »

An Everflow Server fan, i had laying around, going around 14,3kRPM, Shot at 10488fps, 0dB Gain, f/1.3 12,5mm Avenir TV-Lens 243°. LOUD FAN!

564

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Swaping the Chronos Stock fan against a More Silent Noctua one...

« on: November 12, 2020, 09:08:04 AM »

Another important thing to note, for anyone who might want to try to also do this Mod, the Fan needs a few modifications to fit in there. Most obviously, you need to replace the normal PC Fan Connector and attach the connector from the Chronos fan to the Noctua to power it propperly. Then the Noctua fan is not as rounded at the Edges as the Chronos Stock fan, so i needed to shave a bit of material off at two Edges of the Noctua, to make it fit in there in the Correct position for the Screws. Also, i needed to remove two of those Pad-Things Noctua puts on their Fans. Apart from that, pretty easy to replace. I attached some images of the Process.
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 Its only running for an hour so far, but at the moment temperature readings seem to be about the Same, but will have to longer tests and more tests to actually finally confirm that.
 Noise of the new Noctua Fan, while clearly audible, is just so much less loud, its honestly kind of strange how silent the 2.1 is running now, when you are allready used to the other Loud fan. The Sound it self is not only a lot less loud, but also more your typical "humming" on the Noctua compared to the high pitch Whining sound of the Chronos Stock Fan.
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 Also, i now, after playing around with the internals for a bunch of days, need to clean my sensor, as you maybe can spot in some of the images.

565

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Swaping the Chronos Stock fan against a More Silent Noctua one...

« on: November 12, 2020, 08:50:44 AM »

Ok, so the Small Noctua Fan just arrived today, and i have to say, i wasnt expecting such serious Packaging and accesories as this. Never bought an Noctua Fan, guess thats part of what you pay for with that price.
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And it is MUCH, MUCH more Silent than the Chronos Stock fan.

566

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Chronos 2.1 lenses

« on: November 10, 2020, 07:11:48 AM »

Also, while we are here, has anyone yet tried to build a Tilt-Shift Adapter for any SLR-Lenses? Was thinking about something like this since way bevore i even ordered mine, but untill now never got around to do it (and propably also wont do it in near future). But it should be easily possible to build an adapter like this, since The Flange Distance of the Chronos is THAT short, lot of room for an fancy adapter like that. Also sensor is only 4/3", so Image Circle of Full-Frame Lenses is big enough for quite a bit of movements. Also pretty sure someone will be able to make one on an 3D-Printer if they wanted to, not that difficult to do, if you know what to do, or even Cardboard and Glue, if you are patient enough....

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Chronos User Discussion / Swaping the Chronos Stock fan against a More Silent Noctua one...

« on: November 10, 2020, 06:48:52 AM »

Just Randomly came across some very small Server Fans, and that Got me Thinking about the Internal Chronos Fan...
 So, yesterday i took apart my 2.1 again, to have a First close look at the Fan itself, never removed that one bevore.
 The one Built into my 2.1 is a Sunon MagLev MF40101VX-1000U-G99 Fan.
 https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Sunon%20PDFs/MF40101VX-1000U-G99.pdf
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 I can kind of see, why Krontech went with that one, since its propably THE Fan in that size that will push Most Air overall, has pretty high Static Pressure and still uses quite a bit less power than other (Mostly Cheaper China-) Fans at the Same Size. It seems to do a great job at cooling the Internals well enough to prevent Overheating even in Conditions that are far from ideal, but it isnt exactly the most silent Fan ever built. i have seen way worse/ louder Fans (Actuall Server Fans), but the one on the Chronos isnt really that silent for general use. So that got me Thinking, if there would be any Fan, that can replace this one, that would be more silent.
 And i found this one:
 
 Noctua NF-A4x10 PWM
 https://www.ebay.de/itm/Noctua-NF-A4x10-PWM-40mm-Gehauselufter-mit-10mm-Tiefe-fur-12-Volt-PWM-L00034/164477012832?hash=item264b980b60:g:frAAAOSwZKBZGLyj
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 The Noctua one has 11,2% less Airflow on Paper, but also runs way slower and more silent while doing so.
 The Stock Chronos fan runs at a wicked 8500 RPM and according to Datasheet should produce 31,4dB of Noise.
 The Noctua "only" runs at 5000 RPM and should only Produce 19,6dB of Noise, which should be way less noticeable and also quite a bit less high pitched Noise.
 On top of that the Noctua Fan also uses only half the Power (about ~1W rated power Draw vs. ~0,5W rated Power Draw), while basically moving the Same amount of air.
 However, i dont know about Static Pressure, that isnt mentioned in any publication or datasheet i found about the Noctua Fan, so it propably is quite a bit lower. The Stock fan is Clearly built for High Static Pressure, While the Noctua one is propably more optimised for Silent operation and Airflow.
 .
 Now I dont know by how much the 11% less airflow will increase the Risk of overheating and how much the Static pressure affects the Cooling in this usecase, but i guess the Guys at Krontech didnt want to take any risks and went with the most powerfull Fan in terms of Airflow they could find at the Size, to make Sure to be save from any Overheating issues. And it is indeed Nice to have a camera that will just work no matter what, even if its a little Noisy, but i guess not every user needs that, and quite a bunch of people would prefer a more Silent Fan over basically a gurantee against any overheating even in most extreme Conditions.
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5. The cooling system is very very very noisy, in a couple of hours your head will be buzzing, as if you are using an old computer from 2000.

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 I agree, that most people that use Chronos Cameras for Industry and Science stuff would propably prefer the Currently used Fan with Maximum Cooling for the Size, just in case, and dont really care about the Noise at all, but for Filmmaking and general Use in non-Extreme Temperature Conditions it would in My Opinion usually be Preferred to have the More Silent Fan, if performance is that similar.
 Now i also dont know how many different Fans where tested when designing the Cooling solution for this Camera, if at all, or if you Krontech guys just took that fan and went with it (which is completely understandable and also absolutely fine, cause if it works very well, why change it...), but i think it would be realy nice to have The option to buy the Camera with this way more silent Noctua Fan, or even make it the Standard Fan, used for all the Cameras (Next Batch/ Revision maybe, pretty sure you allready have the parts (including the Fans) ordered /shipped/ laying around for the current or even also next Batch of Cameras), unless there is a Reason why this Fan wont work for what ever Reason. I am Aware, that the Noctua one costs like 3x to 4x as much as the other one Costs, but the 10 to 20$ more wont add that much to the overall Price of the Camera, and i am sure about everyone would be willing to pay the extra few $, if its more silent and still does the Cooling well enough.
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 Still cant Say anything for sure, but i ordered one of those Noctua Fans today, we will see how it does when it arrives. I Expect it to do more than well enough for the Average user in terms of cooling, while beeing way more Quiet and a way less distracting sound overall. 
 .
 For anyone Who wants to also Try this and Swap their Fan against one of those:
 The Fan can be Removed and put back in without removing the sensor Board. I would Highly reccomend to NOT remove the Sensor Board, unless you need to for a bunch of different Reasons, which i wont explain here. It needs a bit of fumbling around, but you can get the Fan out there and back in there without unscrewing the Sensor board. Also, while it should be pretty obvious, i am still going to mention it here; this and Simmilar Modifications will pretty sure void your Warranty, so, if Warranty and Stuff is important to you, make sure to inform yourself if it will void Your Warranty bevore attempting anything like this.
 .
 I will keep this updated when the Noctua Fan arrives and i get around to put it in there and do a bit of testing. Feel Free to Share your opinion about this here in this Thread, or your experience if you allready did anything with your Fan/ Airflow. Also if anyone else has an even better idea of what Fan to use, please put a link here. But keep in mind, it has to be 40x40x10mm, bigger wont really fit in there.

568

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Chronos 2.1 lenses

« on: November 09, 2020, 01:23:18 PM »

Dont mind me, just leaving this image of an Old DLP Projection Lens on a Speedbooster mounted to my 2.1 here... (its actually a pretty good lens). Feel free to also post images of your (weird) lenses/ Setups.

569

Chronos User Discussion / Re: Improoving Cooling on the 2.1 Sensor /Experimental

« on: November 09, 2020, 09:08:37 AM »

Peltier module coupled to the heat sink  ?

Had to think about this a bunch more, and think, Watercooling would propably be the easiest and most effective way to go beyond the Current, basically Passive Sensor Cooling.
 Tricky bit is to get some very tiny tubes in there. Also pretty scary to have water runing around inside the Camera, but i guess no risk, no fun. Idea is to basically just drill a 2mm hole across the short side of the 4mm "base" of the Cooler and Solder on some 4x2mm Copper or Brass tube, and run water through there. with an 2mm Inside Diameter, there wont be that much volume of water moving trough anyways, unless you put a lot of pressure, so i would go with nice Cool water straight from the Tap, should give about the best cooling performance i can think of right now without a ton of effort or actually Hardcore Modding The Chronos, which i am not willing to do. This kind of cooler can still be swapped back to the Stock one.

570

Chronos User Discussion / Re: FFPMEG: Fastest conversion of DNG to MP4

« on: November 08, 2020, 02:33:31 PM »

Premiere cannot be automated at all. No way.

Ok, just tried, and you are actually correct about that. I am a bit surprised.
 Have not used Premiere too much in the Past, but knew it could import PNG and other Image Sequences, and assumed it would be able to Deal with DNG also, but it actually cant open DNG at all...
 Premiere Should be able to Use GPU better for rendering faster in General, but that is indeed worthless, if it cant even open DNG...