Author Topic: Wide angle lens for 2.1  (Read 131 times)

JeffNickel

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Wide angle lens for 2.1
« on: November 23, 2021, 02:46:25 PM »
Can anyone recommend a CS lens with viewing angle min 35 degrees that works with my 2.1 without vignetting?

Nikon1

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Re: Wide angle lens for 2.1
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2021, 02:55:08 PM »
Do you specifically want a CS-Mount Lens, or does C-Mount also work?
 Also, is that Viewing angle you mean Diagonal or Horizontal Diagonal 35 would be 35mm or Shorter, which isnt exactly a Wide Angle Lens yet, at least not in my World.
 You can Check out this Massive List of C-Mount Lenses i posted a While ago, let me know however if you are Actually looking for CS-Mount, then i can find you some more Recommendations or even wider Lenses then Listed there:
 https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=655.msg4649#msg4649

Rob_Heathcote

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Re: Wide angle lens for 2.1
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2021, 04:29:04 AM »
Hi Nikon,

I'm also interested in the answer to this question.

Do you happen to also have a list of wide angle lenses for the Chronos 2.1 (i.e. the 4/3" format sensor)? Your list is only for the 2/3", so there would be vignetting in all of those lenses.

I found that good wide angle lenses are really hard to find for the Chronos 2.1. I ended up using a Sony-compatible E-mount lens (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07BHQRTZ9/ref=pe_27063361_485629781_TE_item?th=1) and then designing and 3D printing an E-mount to C-mount adaptor, which also required adjusting the flange focal distance on the camera (super easy to do with the Chronos) since the E-mount lenses don't allow much space. Would be good to have an out-of-the-box option!

Cheers,
Rob

Nikon1

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Re: Wide angle lens for 2.1
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2021, 05:45:11 AM »
Sorry, my bad. I just remembered, that i made a List of machine-Vision Lenses for C-Mount, and posted it here, but did actually not remember nor check, if it was for the 2.1.
 Sorry For that.
 I do have a List for 4/3" as well, but its very short. Need to get some things done Right now, will try to post some Links in a List in the Following few Days.
 Can you meanwhile give a bit more info on what kind of Focal Length you are looking for specifically? from JeffNickel i understand that he is looking for a Lens of 35mm Or shorter Focal Length (while i still consider anything longer than 24mm A Telephoto or at least Portrait lens on an 4/3" sensor) as a "Wide Angle" Lens. Also Application would be interresting to know. Are you just looking for a general use Prime Lens, or is it for some kind of Technical Application, which Requires Vibration resistant Lenses, or is it because you cant easily find Much Wider SLR /DSLR Lenses to use?

JeffNickel

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Re: Wide angle lens for 2.1
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2021, 09:27:19 AM »
Hi Nikon1,
Sorry for not being very specific.  I am looking for a lens for my 2.1 that offers ~ 35 - 40 degrees (horizontally) without any vignetting.  I have a cs-to-c adapter so either mount would work.

I will be using the camera underwater in a swimming pool for some diving research.

I have a 25mm f1.4 Carl Zeiss lens that offers 40 degrees horiz but with the corners cut off.

Thanks

 

Nikon1

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Re: Wide angle lens for 2.1
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2021, 10:39:56 AM »
so around 18 to 25mm then?

Nikon1

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Re: Wide angle lens for 2.1
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2021, 05:24:15 PM »
Here it is.
 My List is actually even shorter then i remembered for 4/3" Format, so i did some more digging online on my own on top of what i had Listed.
 Sadly, most Large Sensor C-Mount Lenses top out at 1.1" Sensor Size (4/3" is 1.3", so just barely bigger), and while i am positive that quite a bunch of those 1.1" Lenses might even fully Cover 4/3" Sensors, i wouldnt be able to say for sure unless i found someone who tested that, or would own one of these, which both is not the Case, so i did only write down Lenses, that are Specifically designed to work for 1.3" / 4/3" Sensors and Rated for that Sensor Size and sold as such.
 .
 .
 Kowa XC Series Lenses
 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1320778-REG/kowa_lm8xc_fixed_focal_length.html
 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1385292-REG/kowa_lm12xc_4_3_megapixel_xc.html
 https://www.rmaelectronics.com/kowa-lm16xc/
 https://www.rmaelectronics.com/kowa-lm25xc/
 These are Available in 8 / 12 / 16 / 25 / 35 / 50 mm Focal Length for 4/3".
 Horizontal Angle of view is 40,9 on the 25mm one, and 93,5 on the 8mm one, so thats the Links i listed above. 8 and 12mm are of course also available at RMA, but B&H is considerably Cheaper.
 Aperture is 2.8 max. on the 8mm, for all the other ones its 2.0 max.
 Rated Resolution is 8MP, so they would still resolve 4K even wide open, according to Rating by Kowa.
 Those are also probably the most popular of the 4/3" Rated C-Mount Lenses i will list here, so you can sometimes find a some of them used on Ebay, currently there are bunch used 25mm ones on there.
 .
 .
 Schneider Kreuznach Compact Xenoplan C-Mount Lenses
 Now while i highly assume, your Vignetting is mostly due to Mechanical Vignetting because of the Adapter you use,
 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignettierung#Echte_Vignettierung
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignetting#Mechanical_vignetting
 There is still Pixel Vignetting on Digital Cameras, that can be a Problem.
 Schneider is building Lenses, that are especially made to solve that Problem:
 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/400373-REG/Schneider_21_1001972_21_1001972_1_3_28mm_F2_0.html
 https://schneiderkreuznach.com/application/files/4115/4114/8809/1001972_Xenoplan_2-0_28.pdf
 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/715062-REG/Schneider_21_1056472_Apo_Xenoplan_2_0_Lens_20mm.html
 https://schneiderkreuznach.com/application/files/2715/4089/1969/1056472_Apo-Xenoplan_2-0_20.pdf
 https://schneiderkreuznach.com/application/files/2215/4089/2869/1071371_Apo-Xenoplan_2-0_24.pdf
 https://www.tesscorn-analysis.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Accessories-APO-Xenoplan-24mm-f2.0-Ruggedized-lens.pdf
 They just Specify AoV here (= Angle of View), which i highly assume would then by Diagonal Angle of View, if you want to make sure, give them a quick call (their customer Support is crazy good, called them a few times myself because of some of my Schneider Lenses, can recommend), or write them a Mail if you want to know for sure.
 Anyways AoV as given by Datasheet is 44 for the 28mm; 52,17 for the 24mm APO; 60,67 for the 20mm APO.
 Aperture is f/2.0 max.
 Now while the 28mm is still far from cheap, the APO Lenses of that Series start to cost some Real Money (couldnt find an actual online Listing for the 24mm with an Price, but from the 3k Price Tag on the 20mm, i assume it wont be much cheaper also).
 However, strangely enough, you can find some utterly Insane Deals for some of those on Ebay sometimes, so if you are not afraid of Used Lenses from Ebay, give that a Try. Just make very sure, you know what Lens you are Buying Exactly, and that that one Actually Covers MFT, as there are a ton of Different Versions of these Schneider Xenoplan Lenses around, some of which wont even cover 1" fully (as Per Specification).
 Here are some Links to German Ebay Listings, i found from a very Quick Search that seem to offer some of those at really Reasonable Prices in different Conditions, MAKE SURE TO DOUBLE CHECK ANY OF THOSE LISTINGS YOURSELF, IF ITS ACTUALLY THE CORRECT LENS BEFORE BUYING!
 https://www.ebay.de/itm/154706595876?hash=item24053b5024:g:gkEAAOSwL3FfA4y-
 https://www.ebay.de/itm/265422415583?hash=item3dcc68a6df:g:q60AAOSwKeBdd75U
 https://www.ebay.de/itm/124244183747?hash=item1ced87cac3:g:cRAAAOSwH4Be~XLe
 https://www.ebay.de/itm/274440653603?hash=item3fe5f00b23:g:oJAAAOSwqeBfHt~A  According to my List, the Non-APO versions are rated for "3-5MP" which should technically still render a Sharper Image than the 2.1 Sensor can capture, and the APO-Versions are Rated to resolve 12MP.
 These should be Available in 20 / 24 / 35 / 50 mm Versions as APO and 28 / 35 m Versions as Non-APO.
 Also very short Minimum Focus Distance, meaning you could use these for Closeups or even "Macro" Work.
 .
 .
 Goyo Optical
 http://www.goyooptical.com/products/industrial/GM12HR61220MCN.pdf
 http://www.goyooptical.com/products/industrial/GM12HR61620MCN.pdf
 http://www.goyooptical.com/products/industrial/GM12HR62520MCN.pdf
 These range from 40,6 to 75,46 Horizontal Angle of View.
 Aperture is also 2.0 Max on these, and they would also have a 35 and 50mm Version of that Lens.
 No idea what ever these would cost, as their Site does not list any Prices, and cant seem anyone else offering these anywhere.
 Rated Resolution is Specified as 12MP, and Minimum Focus Distance is also short on most of these.
 I assume you would need to buy from them directly, and Request Prices if that would actually be something that would fit your need, but given they are 12MP rated and for such a Large Sensor, i guess they wont be cheap either.
 #EDIT#: Found someone Selling them, but no Price either here:
 https://www.visionlighttech.com/product.php?hoofdgroep=lenses&subgroep=12-megapixel&id=GM12HR62520MCN
 .
 They however offer some VERY Fast Lenses also:
 http://www.goyooptical.com/products/industrial/GMHR62409MCN.pdf
 http://www.goyooptical.com/products/industrial/GMHR62408M42N.pdf
 These are both 24mm, one of them is f/0,9 max the other one even is f/0,8 (f/0.8 is M42 However).
 As they dont even give any Rating regards Resolution, i wonder how sharp those are, and if they are Sharp, probably not up to the Corners, otherwise they pretty sure would have at least put "Megapixel Lens ...." somewhere in there (which usually means 1+ Megapixel, so it would properly resolve 720pHD).
 Also not able to find any Price for those, but also cant imagine these being cheap at these Specs.
 .
 .
 Zeiss Dimension Series Lenses
 https://www.stemmer-imaging.com/en/products/series/zeiss-dimension-lenses/
 Available in 8 / 12 / 18 / 25 / 35 / 50 mm Versions.
 Could only find A Resolution Rating from Stemmer:
 https://www.stemmer-imaging.com/en/products/zeiss-dimension-288/
 Which is "56.2" without any unit given, but i assume Megapixels, which would be pretty intense.
 Given that Pixel Pitch on the 2.1 is 10m and Zeiss Rates these good to use for a pixel Pitch of 2m, that would seem possible at least.
 They apparently Have some Kind of Advanced Backfocus Adjustment built into the Lens itself.
 Price is Substantial, but these are about as good as General Use Lenses for 4/3" get, if you have to Stick to C-Mount.
 Aperture again 2.8 on the 8mm, and 2.0 on all others.
 https://www.rmaelectronics.com/zeiss-dimension-2-8-8-4-3-8mm/
 https://www.rmaelectronics.com/zeiss-dimension-2-12/
 https://www.rmaelectronics.com/zeiss-dimension-2-18/
 https://www.rmaelectronics.com/zeiss-dimension-2-25/
 .
 .
 Computar
 https://www.vision-dimension.com/en/lenses/ccs-mount-lenses/monofocal-lenses/12-mm-c-mount-computar-45mp-objektiv-f1228-mpt/1232
 Also found this Lens, but its out of stock. 12mm f/2.8 and apparently rated for 45MP Resolution, but currently out of Stock and has a Price tag of 9999,00 if you actually make an Account on the Site to see the Price (they Sell to business Customers only also).
 Not sure if that is a Real Price or just some Placeholder Price, or why anyone would spend 5 times the Price of what that Zeiss Lens with basically better Specs costs on that, but this apparently exists, and should fit what you looking for (except for the Price, i guess).

Nikon1

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Re: Wide angle lens for 2.1
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2021, 05:36:13 PM »
Now C-Mounts are Very Limited for Sensors of 4/3" Size, and the ones that are Available are usually fairly pricey. If you want to get cheaper / better overall Value Lenses, you would probably need to look into MFT Mount Lenses. For Focal Length longer than 16mm and Lenses that are not faster than f/1.4, the Adapter Krontech Sells should work well enough, but for anything faster and Wider i can currently not recommend it, based on the unit i got. But that is still an Option to keep in mind. If MFT Mount is also an Option and you dont need to strictly stick to C-Mount, i can also Make you a List for some MFT-Lenses that would fit your need. If Krontech hopefully gets their Tolerances on their MFT-Adapters to some Reasonable Point, i might even at some Point would be able to Recommend Ultra-Wide Angle Lenses for MFT. If you still want to use MFT-Lenses until that happens (if ever), check out this file
 https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=615.0;attach=1599
 , which i originally posted here:
 https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=615.0
 If you can figure out how to use this to Mount an MFT-Lens, you probably are also Able to make a working Adapter of that Style. Will Probably eventually Post a Full Guide on how to Build one of these.
 Let me know, if that answered your Question.

JeffNickel

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Re: Wide angle lens for 2.1
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2021, 02:15:56 PM »
Nikon1,
Thank you for such a comprehensive list.  Are the MFT lenses more popular and accessible than the c/cs mounts?

I will be adding lenses to my arsenal as required by future projects and wonder if the MFT adapters would be worth the $500 (two cameras) investment.

Jeff

Nikon1

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Re: Wide angle lens for 2.1
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2021, 03:04:56 PM »
No Problem.
 Generally Speaking There are way more Options for MFT Lenses, especially Wide Angle Lenses for 4/3" Sensors than you will ever find C-Mount Lenses, that are actually rated for that.
 MFT Mount Lenses are very Mainstream Products which are Mass Produced, Most of those C-Mount Lenses that are Rated for 4/3" are very Niche Products. The Fact that these are made in small numbers only because of that, and are usually Specialty Lenses of High Quality or for certain unusual Applications (There are a bunch more Lenses For 4/3" i could list here, but most are Either Telecentric Lenses, which probably would exceed the Cost of the Camera and are probably not of much use for what you are doing, or are for IR or UV use. I only listed General Use optics for Visible or Visible+IR use. A good bunch of the Lenses Listed are in fact suited for VIS+IR use without need to refocus, which is needed for Surveillance Cameras which need to operate day&night unattended.).
 MFT Lenses Tend to be Cheaper, and are usually also way easier to get, as most decent Camera Stores carry at least a bunch of them, or just Straight up ebay/ amazon or some other online Shop.
 These High-End, Big Sensor C-Mounts seem to mostly hold their Value reasonably well though, or at least asking price seems very close to retail price, that is assuming you can find someone who even will buy these and has a need for those.
 Entry Level MFT Lenses, which are cheap on the other hand are usually sadly also worse Image Quality than these Rated Industry-Level Lenses. If you want decent MFT Lenses with good image Quality and good Sharpness, you will also end up paying a good bit (still probably cheaper than some of the Listed C-Mounts).
 Really Depends what you want to do with them and what your Requirements are.
 These C-Mount Lenses i just listed would probably be preferred if you need Rugged and Small Lenses which perform very well in almost any Situation. Industrial Lenses are also usually very Straight forward and open about what they are designed to be able to do, and what they are Made to do, with very well known Performance Data and Ratings, where with MFT Lenses, that is usually not the case, very Little MFT-Lens Makers actually provide Info about what Resolution / Circle of Confusion / MTF / Range of Wavelength / Image Circle their Lenses are designed for, and you just get what you get, or have to rely on Reviews of People who have tested them online.
 MFT gives you more different Options in terms of Focal Length though, usually offers Lenses with Higher Speed (bigger Aperture), also much different Styles and Shapes Available from a lot of different Makers; also generally way lower cost for Basic Lenses, and wider Lenses Available. At the Cost of simpler Lens Designs for at least the Entry-Level to Mid-Tier Lenses, which usually shows in lack of Sharpness at Wide open Aperture or Lack of Sharpness at the Corners, and other Optical Flaws. Also often More Bulky in Size, most C-mounts are fairly Tiny and Compact for what they do.
 .
 If you want, i can also make you a list of Lenses for MFT-Mount i think would be reasonable to use. For that, however, i would be glad if you can Further Specify the Exact Focal Length Range you are Looking for, as there are just way too many Options to just make an general MFT-Lens List.
 .
 As For the MFT-Adapter by Krontech, i bought that one, and, as stated in an other Thread, at Least the first Batch seems to have some serious Issues regards Quality Control, which will for almost Certain cause you Issues if used with Big Aperture Lenses or very Wide Lenses. As you are Looking for a Wide Angle Lens, if i was you, i would probably at least wait a bit if you think about buying that one, until there is some Kind of Statement from Krontech, what happened there, and if they are going to fix this for future ones.
 I however would generally Recommend MFT Lenses for the 2.1 over anything with C-mount, at least if you are going to use the full sensor. for 1280x720px, which conveniently works out to 1" sensor Size, there are Plenty of nice C-Mounts, just not that many affordable ones with good price/ Value for general use for 4/3" Format.
 Most of the not utterly Cheap MFT-Mount Manual Lenses available should deliver at least reasonable Image Quality, If you really want to get the Sharpest Image you can get, i would still Recommend you to Look into Higher End MFT-Lenses or to consider these Zeiss C-Mounts, never heard about anyone actually use those, but they seem like really nice and good Lenses from a quick Look at them (did no further Research on those, do that yourself please, if these are actually a realistic Option for you and fit your Butget!).
 In general, i think the Krontech MFT Adapter is worth, what they are asking, but at that Price i would expect a Adapter that should not affect my Sharpness on any Lens that could be Reasonably assumed i would be Mounting on there, given my Camera and Lens are to Specification, but it currently does.
 I am Currently Posting a guide However, which allows you to Mount anything with MFT-Mount to your Chronos with an Homemade Adapter, which you can either 3D-Print, make From Metal on your own, or get made in a CNC-Job-Shop. Not quite done yet, as i ran into some kind of Forum Limit yesterday, and could not Post any more Replies to that Topic (i assume its like 10 to 12 Posts a day you can make here, to prevent people from just spamming weird stuff or advertisements, as has happened like 2 Years ago for a bunch of Weeks, i guess after that they put a Limit to this) yesterday, and today i dont really have time to finish it, hope to be able to post the remaining bit tomorrow:
 https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=615.msg4908#msg4908
 Consider checking that out, Should allow anyone to Mount a MFT-Lens/ -Adapter/ -Speedbooster or other Mirrorless Lenses and -Adapters to a Chronos Camera with a Higher Precision and way cheaper than what Krontech can Currently Provide. Will take some Work though, and a MFT mount is just way more convenient to use though.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 03:13:30 PM by Nikon1 »