Author Topic: Dust on sensor. Any tips to get rid of and to avoid?  (Read 3059 times)

clkdiv

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Dust on sensor. Any tips to get rid of and to avoid?
« on: October 03, 2020, 02:02:54 PM »
Hello! Now that I got more light for filming with my Chronos 2.1, I am able to close the lens aperture much more than before. Now this makes so much dust on the sensor showing up that it becomes critical.

Although I  used rocket blowers to clean the sensor on my DSLRs, I wonder if there is anything special about the Chronos sensor, if someone has some tips, and even more, if there are any suggestions on how to avoid it? I feel really uncomfortable dealing with such an expensive sensor.

Thanks! Martin.

Nikon1

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Re: Dust on sensor. Any tips to get rid of and to avoid?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2020, 01:07:23 AM »
Well first off, there is an Filter Glass in front of the actuall sensor itself, which isnt that expensive to replace.
 Then, there are those gel sensor cleaner kits, with an Gel cleaner and Special Sticky tape to clean the sensor.
 Bought mine from a name Brand at a local camera shop for like 30 with a bunch of tape included, i dont know how much i would trust those China-Things from Ebay but heres a link, so you get the idea to what i mean:
 https://www.ebay.de/itm/CCD-CMOS-Sensor-Staub-Reinigungsstift-Jelly-Cleaner-fur-DSLR-Blau-ersetzen/401582965352?hash=item5d8035c268:g:7fQAAOSwXl9bdkHN
 Those always worked great for me, even for cleaning my sensors on location. I would make sure to get one with an propper Metal case and a Sealing cap for the Gel.
 Number of uses of those Gel Cleaning sets is limited by the amount of Tape it comes with (for some you can order refill-packs of Tape which i did for mine, mine worked great for over 2 Years now of intense use)
 The 2.1 Sensor gets dirty faster because its a lot bigger in surface area, so also more area for dust to land on.

Nikon1

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Re: Dust on sensor. Any tips to get rid of and to avoid?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2020, 01:14:28 AM »
Also, keeping your backsides of your lenses Clean alone can help to avoid a lot of the dust coming into the camera in the first place.

clkdiv

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Re: Dust on sensor. Any tips to get rid of and to avoid?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2020, 01:29:50 PM »
Okay, thanks, so nothing really special about the sensor compared to a dslr. Good to know about the protective glass.

Since I haven't looked into my Chronos I wonder how the active cooling is involved in sucking in dust. I assume the sensor is completely protected from cooling air?

Thanks! Martin.

Nikon1

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Re: Dust on sensor. Any tips to get rid of and to avoid?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2020, 06:08:46 PM »
Sensor does not collect dust from cooling air, unless you use some kind of strange adapter which will allow airflow from the Fan to the Sensor via the front side. When using Standard C-Mount lenses or adapters, this is not a problem, but i had some Air Leaks with an Self-Built adapter which was so large that it allowed some air from the Fan in the Front to get directly to the sensor, but that was just a bad adapter design by my self. Unless you do any modifications to the Camera itself and as long as you use it with C-Mount Lenses/ Adapters, cooling air will not be the reason for dust on the Sensor, there are air Seals all around the sensor, so no problem here. Watch the official 2.1 Teardown from tesla500 if you want to know more about that, he explains the airflow quite a bit in this video. In your kind of usecase most dust will most likely come into the Camera while changing lenses, for example from a dusty enviroment and as i allready said from dirty/ dusty Lenses. the more you change lenses/ the Longer you keep the Sensor exposed to the Air, the more dust it will collect. Some DSLM and DSLR People which are really afraid of dust on their sensor will even go as far as making sure to allways have the Sensor facing the ground, when there is no lens attached when Changing the Lens for a few Seconds as to avoid dust collection from Gravity. While this can seem a bit extreme, it does actually help to avoid dust in the First place, also it helps to allways keep on lens-Caps and Camera-Body-Caps when nothing is attached to them. An other Note: when cleaning Sensors, always make sure to use the propper Cleaning tools to make sure not to SCRATCH your sensor. Those Gel cleaning kits are my favorite, because you just tap the glass and the dust comes right off, no risk of scratching. other kinds of cleaning kits need you to wipe the Sensor which allways puts you on a risk of draging across some small bit of dirt across the sensor, which will cause a scratch. so be carefull, especially if you dont have a lot of experience. Also, most serious camera shops will also provide a Sensor Cleaning service, most of them should proppably agree to also clean the Chronos Sensor, since its basically nothing else then an DSLR-Sensor. They have the Propper tooling to clean it professionaly and also trained people with a lot of experience. So if you or anyone else is unsure about cleaning it themselfs, maybe let it get cleaned at a camera Shop rather than damage anything.

clkdiv

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Re: Dust on sensor. Any tips to get rid of and to avoid?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2020, 08:12:42 AM »
Hello Nikon1,

thanks again. In your linked cleaning tool it is stated that these are for CCD CMOS sensors. Now How are theses things used? Do they cover the whole sensor size all in one step or does one have to collect the dust by "walking" step by step? Actually I don't really get who they work. These stickers, where are they put? Onto the sensor? On the stamp?

I found a similar system at Amazon, but in customer reviews it is said that the stamps can stick that much to the sensor, that parts from the stamp will be left at the surface.

And I also wonder if I could use cleaners for APS-C or MFT-size too? What do you think about these?

Nikon1

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Re: Dust on sensor. Any tips to get rid of and to avoid?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2020, 12:28:58 PM »
Hello Nikon1,

thanks again. In your linked cleaning tool it is stated that these are for CCD CMOS sensors. Now How are theses things used? Do they cover the whole sensor size all in one step or does one have to collect the dust by "walking" step by step? Actually I don't really get who they work. These stickers, where are they put? Onto the sensor? On the stamp?

I found a similar system at Amazon, but in customer reviews it is said that the stamps can stick that much to the sensor, that parts from the stamp will be left at the surface.

And I also wonder if I could use cleaners for APS-C or MFT-size too? What do you think about these?
I was honestly just to lazy to go and look what brand mine was, but just went and looked, and yes, the ones you linked from Amazon is the Exact one i own. I am very happy with that one and got quite a bit of use out of it. I at some point bought an extra refill pack of those Tape Strips from the same Brand, and while this is propably a bit on the Expensive side (the Tape Strips are also not cheap, and the Package isnt that big...), i found it well worth it. I never had any kind of problem with it sticking to any sensors, thats propably what you pay for with those more expensive brands. Wouldnt doubt that the cheaper ones from china can leave parts behind on the Sensor or have a lot of other problems. The Cheaper ones also seem to have "Sharp" edges While the Eyelead one has well Rounded edges and also is very high Quality gel in generall. Have personally never use anything else, but am very happy with the eyelead brand one and can 100% reccomend it.
 .
 Now about how those work/ are used:
 You can clean any kind of Sensor Size with those (meaning the Larger ones), but i wouldnt try to clean any sensors smaller than the Gel Stamp itself, which for mine would be 1/2" or 2/3" Sensor as a minimum Size, so like Chronos 1.4 Sensor size and maybe a bit smaller, but not much smaller. You use this Cleaning tool in The Cleanest room you have access to with really good lighting. you start by opening the protective cover of the Gel tip and start to touch the upper left corner of the Sensor surface (if your sensor is at least 3x the surface area of the Gel stamp surface) gently, you just want it to stick there (roll it over a bit when lifting up), dont actually press with force. Then carefully pull it off the sensor again in a rolling motion. Everytime after touching the Sensor, you need to press the Gel surface onto the Sticky tape. Make sure to allways use a new spot on the Tape to not transfer any dust, dirt or other stuff back to the Sensor when touching it again. So its best to allways leave a bit of a gap between the spots you touch/ use on the Tape. After you transferred the Dirt from the Sensor to the Gel and then onto the Tape, the Gel is clean again, and you can go on with cleaning the Rest of the Sensor. Next, put the Gel on the Sensor again, with a bit of overlap to the Point where you touched it last, to cover every bit of surface on the Sensor. I work my way from Upper Left Corner to the Right and then in Rows downwards usually, but you can do whatever works best for you. Just make sure that you have cleaned all the Surface area of the Sensor, and allways cleaned the Gel tip of on the Tape after touching the Sensor, and throw away the used tape. With the Rounded edges of this Eylead one, you can also go in there and for example if the Whole Sensor is clean, but you have one or two bits of dirt on there that bother you, you can just use the Edge or the Corner (or even the tapered Sides of the Gel Tip work sometimes) and roll it over, to just catch this one bit of dust, and save yourself a lot of time and tape. I personally usually use really small sensors (1"/ Super 16mm), so i cut up my Tape Strips into halves, since that is more than enough to clean my size of sensor with the Size Tape and Gel tip i got in my set, and can get double the amount of uses out of the rather expensive tape. If you end up just using the Corner or edge to just pick out single bits of dust most of the time, it might be usefull to cut even smaller strips or Squares of tape. For cleaning a full size 2.1 Sensor i however guess you will end up using most of the area of one Tape Strip.
 As i allready said, with this process you can even clean Medium Format Sensors if you wanted to and are patient enough. But for that i would reccomend an really clean room, because otherwise more dust will collect on the Huge sensor in the Long time you are cleaning it, than you can remove in that time. For smaller sensors a reasonable clean room (No dust, no Carpet! also close Windows and doors to avoid dust getting kicked up by airflow) its usually fine, but you still want to get done somewhat fast and not take forever with the cleaning (still take your time and work Carefully, you dont want to scratch or damage anything). Best Practice is also to allways put the Gel tip back into the Protective cover as fast as possible and Keep it closed tight if you are not using it, never put it down onto the Table or any other Surface. if you are not holding it or using it, just put it back into the Cover. Also cover up the Sensor with an Clean Camera Body Cap or a Clean Lens (clean backside especially), when you are done.  I think this should be about all the info you need on this topic to use one of those, if you still have any questions, let me know. The higher Quality ones like the eyelead can hold up pretty long. I used mine about once or twice per month in average over the last 2 to 2 1/2 Years and its still going strong.
 When Cleaning the Sensor, still be carefully, while there is an IR/ UV-Filter glass in front of the Actuall sensor, and its a lot harder to damage the sensor with a cleaning tool like this than for example those "fancy Q-Tip things to wipe the Sensor down with some kind of cleaning fluid" (also a lot harder to actually get the Sensor clean with most of those, because they will make stripes from the Wiping if not used propperly, just like cleaning windows glass. cleaning the Sensor wet like this can be nessercary sometimes, if you get a ton of bodily grease onto the sensor or something alike, but then just dont touch your sensor after eating chicken (or just avoid touching it in generally...) and you should be fine. For dust alone, and even reasonable amounts of fat, the Gel Cleaning Kits work very well), IF you end up scratching the IR/ UV-Filter (i bought one Spare when i ordered my 2.1, just because i know i propably will end up damaging that one sooner or later propably), and need to replace it, there will be the actuall sensor exposed while you exchange them, and if you end up getting dust on there, which is rather likely, you then need to clean the Sensor itself, which puts you on the risk of also scratching that. And if you Scratch the Sensor itself, you are really screwed, cause that gets really expensive. So do anything you can to avoid scratching it in the First place, for example just avoid getting your sensor dirty, so you dont need to clean it every other day.

clkdiv

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Re: Dust on sensor. Any tips to get rid of and to avoid?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2020, 01:09:05 PM »
Wow! Thanks a lot for your detailed reply. Ok, So I ordered some of exactly the sticks you use. I feel much safer now. I am sure some other people will find this useful too. Thanks!


Nikon1

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Re: Dust on sensor. Any tips to get rid of and to avoid?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2020, 12:25:53 PM »
Okay, thanks, so nothing really special about the sensor compared to a dslr. Good to know about the protective glass.

Since I haven't looked into my Chronos I wonder how the active cooling is involved in sucking in dust. I assume the sensor is completely protected from cooling air?

Thanks! Martin.
"protective" Glass (actually Hot Mirror):
 https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=614.msg3949#msg3949