Author Topic: New Chronos 3.7 4k !  (Read 3534 times)

VitalyZorkin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« on: October 19, 2020, 09:08:52 PM »

Sensor: S35 ams CMV12000
Resolution: 4096x3072x10b
4K Frame Rate: 300fps@4096x3072x10b (4:3), 422fps@4096x2160x10b (17:9)
2K Frame Rate: 1049fps@2048x1536x10b (4:3), 1461fps@2048x1080x10b (17:9)
Lens: E-mount / Canon EF / Canon R / Nikon F / Nikon Z
Memory: DDR4 32 / 64 / 128 GB
Storage: NVMe SSD 1 / 2 TB



Just my imagination!
What do you think guys?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 09:13:36 PM by VitalyZorkin »

B.H.V

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2020, 05:58:37 AM »
Wow! That be nice. :)

clkdiv

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2020, 06:04:10 AM »
Woffz!

Rainer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2020, 12:05:23 PM »
Is this an actual working thing?  :o

Nikon1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 722
    • View Profile
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2020, 12:36:28 PM »
that would be nice, yes.
 However, i would still want a user-Replaceable mount option like the four M4 Holes on the Front of the 1.4 and 2.1, since on an S35 Sensor of that resolution, if used at The FullHD 1461fps Setting (which is rather likely to be used pretty frequently), the effective sensor-Size will be around 1" or even smaller, would need to look up actuall dimensions of the Sensor to calculate that accurately, but rather small active sensor area. For that, or even higher framerates, you would still want an option to use MFT Lenses or even C- and CS-Mount for really high framerates and therfor very small effective sensor area. Just imagine trying to get an wide angle Shot at one of the Lower resolution settings like 480p or something. Pixels on that sensor are still smaller than the pixels on the 2.1! And all the Lens mounts you listed only have Lenses for rather large sensors, meaning you would end up using Ultrawide-Angle Lenses or fisheye lenses a lot if you would want an reasonable wide shot on low resolution. To be fair, All the Mirrorless mounts you listed would allow for using an Adapter for C-Mount lenses, but if you want CS-Lenses for the very high framerate options, which could happen, you wouldnt be able to mount them.
 While this is a nice camera with some solid horsepower, its in a somewhat weird spot, to be honest. If i was looking for 4K with high framerates, i am propably looking for some serious image Quality also, so it might be better to look into buying an Cine Cam which allready does that. there are a bunch out there, that can do 4K at high framerates, that just lack the Super High Framerate options the Chronos Cameras have at very low resolutions. Someone who wants to use it for Filmmaking only and doesnt need an Actuall highspeed camera, that can do 10kfps++ are might better of getting one of those. Just as an example a lot of the higher end Sony and RED cameras have High framerate options, and there are also a lot of less known brands that will do some kind of decent Higher Framerates, but those cameras are highly focused on filmmaking and wont have the Highspeed options the chronos has. While most of them wont reach the Framerates at the Resolutions you listed (some not even close to that), i assume that they would propably hard to beat in terms of image Quality by this Chronos.
 As much about the 4K. If an 4K Chronos would be available at an extremely competitive price, that would maybe change things a bit, and make it worth a second thought, but else, if you just want cine-Level 4K at a bit higher Framerates, and you allready spending a few thousand $, might allready buy an cine-Camera and get really nice Image Quality.
 Now Full HD at 1,5kfps is quite a bit more interresting in my opinion. But then again, if you end up using it at fullHD anyways, just maybe build a camera around some sensor that can push 1,5 to 2,5 kfps (or way more), and is not as small as this. the FullHD Sensor Area is way smaller than even the 2.1 Sensor.
 So, as i allready said, that puts it in an weird spot, since for higher framerates, the effective crop factor ends up beeing worse than on the 2.1 and propably even 1.4, making it somewhat weird to use as an Actuall highspeed-Camera (i dont really know anything about the Camera Sensor itself or how good it is, but with pixels that small, unless its way better then the other ones, i am not sure about sensitivity), and as an High-End/Highspeed Cine-Cam, it would also propably be somewhat disapointing to some people. I tried to use the 2.1 for filming real time footage or other Framerates one would maybe want to use on such a cameras, and its just built as an Highspeed camera, it wants to go fast, wont really work at below 60fps. I think if something like this 3.7 Chronos you imagined here would want to do well as some kind of Cine-Cam Highspeed Crossbreed, i think Signal processing (especially black calibration below 60fps and dealing with sensor noise in general, not sure if thats down to signal procesing, thermals or whatever....) and lower fps options need quite a bit of work. Also White-Balance User interface and the Whole Color settings (the Color Matrix is kinda weird to use, and not really intuitive) in general, as well as things like Lack of exposure indicator or at least some kind of Histogramm would drive a bunch of the target Buyers of such a camera mad, so prepare for some crazy haters and angry costumers incoming, if those things are unchanged. Not sure about how much of the Low-Framerate problems are Hardware and how much is software (its an Highspeed-Camera and -Sensor after all....) but if you start selling a camera and put all the stuff you wrote in the datasheet, be sure someone buys it and gets way disapointed, expecting it to do 25 or 24fps just fine and maybe even want to use it as Main Cam for whatever usual filmmaking. Especially if you put stuff like 10Bit and 4096x3073px (Wondering what such a sensor could do with some propper anamorphic glass... ::) ).
 .
 No matter how that turns out, would still love to have one, even if it was just some Fixed mount Camera, with 2.1 features and software, but this sensor and Memory (allready afraid of the kind of Hard-Drive Space a camera would eat up with 128GB of RAM...). But propably wont happen anytime soon, just got an 2.1 myself, so unless i get one of those as a gift....

Nikon1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 722
    • View Profile
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2020, 12:41:17 PM »
Is this an actual working thing?  :o
Based on this:
Just my imagination!
What do you think guys?
I think not really yet. But it seems, there is an sensor that would allow such a camera to exist one day. I dont know what the image is about, if that is an actuall prototype with that sensor, if its from Krontech or whoever built that thing, or if its just an random image of some other prototype. Was waiting for an 4K Highspeed-Cam from Krontech for quite a while, lets see where this is going, and if this is just a wild idea or if there is something allready coming up and in developement.

SergeyKashin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
    • https://www.instagram.com/sergey.kashin/
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2020, 01:05:14 PM »
Is this an actual working thing?  :o
Based on this:
Just my imagination!
What do you think guys?
I think not really yet. But it seems, there is an sensor that would allow such a camera to exist one day. I dont know what the image is about, if that is an actuall prototype with that sensor, if its from Krontech or whoever built that thing, or if its just an random image of some other prototype. Was waiting for an 4K Highspeed-Cam from Krontech for quite a while, lets see where this is going, and if this is just a wild idea or if there is something allready coming up and in developement.

Such a camera already exists and is sold in large quantities, about 300 cameras were sold in about a month

Nikon1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 722
    • View Profile
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2020, 01:10:26 PM »
Is this an actual working thing?  :o
Based on this:
Just my imagination!
What do you think guys?
I think not really yet. But it seems, there is an sensor that would allow such a camera to exist one day. I dont know what the image is about, if that is an actuall prototype with that sensor, if its from Krontech or whoever built that thing, or if its just an random image of some other prototype. Was waiting for an 4K Highspeed-Cam from Krontech for quite a while, lets see where this is going, and if this is just a wild idea or if there is something allready coming up and in developement.
Such a camera already exists and is sold in large quantities, about 300 cameras were sold in about a month
do you have a link or name of that thing?
 Is this an actuall finished product, a well developed camera or just something like shown, some kind of prototype board without a case?

SergeyKashin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
    • https://www.instagram.com/sergey.kashin/
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2020, 01:44:39 PM »
Is this an actual working thing?  :o
Based on this:
Just my imagination!
What do you think guys?
I think not really yet. But it seems, there is an sensor that would allow such a camera to exist one day. I dont know what the image is about, if that is an actuall prototype with that sensor, if its from Krontech or whoever built that thing, or if its just an random image of some other prototype. Was waiting for an 4K Highspeed-Cam from Krontech for quite a while, lets see where this is going, and if this is just a wild idea or if there is something allready coming up and in developement.



https://freeflysystems.com/wave

Do you not monitor the market, you need to follow the news in the world more
Such a camera already exists and is sold in large quantities, about 300 cameras were sold in about a month
do you have a link or name of that thing?
 Is this an actuall finished product, a well developed camera or just something like shown, some kind of prototype board without a case?

Nikon1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 722
    • View Profile
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2020, 01:48:33 PM »
https://freeflysystems.com/wave
 Well, after a bunch of searching around, i found it.
 10k$ for the cheapest one, guess thats some rather competitive price for that camera.
 It got Switchable mounts, so they got that one right. But still, that thing works completely different than the Chronos cameras. Also, this will eat 2TB in 30min record time, thats pretty crazy...
 Still not sure, if that camera is even compareable to the Chronos Cameras, 4k footage for sure looks damn nice on that Camera, but all the Lower res shots shown in their demo video look rather rough, also it tops out at 10kfps. If you are all about film Making and need 4k (or shoot at 4k anyways and make it into some damn nice looking FullHD in post...), this is sure nice, but on the highspeed side of things this does not seem to hold up with the Chronos cameras. This seems more like Mainly for Filmmaking and also a Highspeed-Camera, where The Chronos are Highspeed-Camera and also For Filmmaking. That camera absolutely has its place, but i dont know if it would even make remotely sense for Krontech to basically copy that and make it into something like an Chronos 3.7 based on the same sensor...? If that Camera fits your need, just buy that one.

Nikon1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 722
    • View Profile
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2020, 02:12:27 PM »


https://freeflysystems.com/wave

Do you not monitor the market, you need to follow the news in the world more

Not really, why would i need to...?
 I allready have my Chronos 2.1, and that does do what i need, so i dont really see, why i would allways look out for the newest craze. If i for some Reason needed a new camera, i sure would, but for at least the next 5 to 10 years i am set with my 2.1, and for what i paid for that, i am pretty happy with it. Even if i had the money for that Wave camera, i am not sure, if i would buy one. unless you are making some serious money back from that camera, its quite a lot of money to spend, with wich i could do a ton of other things. Dont get me wrong, 5k + 1k Import tax for us germans isnt anywhere near cheap for an camera, but that thing costs just twice that. There certainly are people that allways run around all the time looking for the newest kind of tech in the news, every day getting more unhappy and depressive because of all the nice new things they cant afford, which are somehow better than the allready nice expensive things they just bought not that long ago...
 .
 Dont want to really continue that, i think you know where that is going, and what i am trying to say.
 I am still using my PC i built 5 years ago (from back then allready used hardware, and it still rocks), and am still happy with my 2015 Nikon1 J5, when everyone keeps freaking out about 4k and even 8k, this cam still does shoot nice footage and still will do that in 10 and even 20 years, if i dont break it completely untill then.
 Same goes for my Chronos. Will still be using it in 10 Year and will be happy while doing so.
 If i started searching for an camera today, things might be different, but back when i started to save up for the Chronos, i did my research, and bought what will work for me for the next few years for sure. If i spend that kind of money, i want to make sure that i spend it right. Not sure, if you guys are making a lot of money back off of your highspeed Cameras, or are just rich or something, but i wont in the forseeable future, so i also wont change cameras every year or buy a new one just cause. So i have seen this and am now like "Yeah ok, this exists" and will move on.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 03:15:07 PM by Nikon1 »

SergeyKashin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
    • https://www.instagram.com/sergey.kashin/
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2020, 04:06:36 PM »


https://freeflysystems.com/wave

Do you not monitor the market, you need to follow the news in the world more

Not really, why would i need to...?
 I allready have my Chronos 2.1, and that does do what i need, so i dont really see, why i would allways look out for the newest craze. If i for some Reason needed a new camera, i sure would, but for at least the next 5 to 10 years i am set with my 2.1, and for what i paid for that, i am pretty happy with it. Even if i had the money for that Wave camera, i am not sure, if i would buy one. unless you are making some serious money back from that camera, its quite a lot of money to spend, with wich i could do a ton of other things. Dont get me wrong, 5k + 1k Import tax for us germans isnt anywhere near cheap for an camera, but that thing costs just twice that. There certainly are people that allways run around all the time looking for the newest kind of tech in the news, every day getting more unhappy and depressive because of all the nice new things they cant afford, which are somehow better than the allready nice expensive things they just bought not that long ago...
 .
 Dont want to really continue that, i think you know where that is going, and what i am trying to say.
 I am still using my PC i built 5 years ago (from back then allready used hardware, and it still rocks), and am still happy with my 2015 Nikon1 J5, when everyone keeps freaking out about 4k and even 8k, this cam still does shoot nice footage and still will do that in 10 and even 20 years, if i dont break it completely untill then.
 Same goes for my Chronos. Will still be using it in 10 Year and will be happy while doing so.
 If i started searching for an camera today, things might be different, but back when i started to save up for the Chronos, i did my research, and bought what will work for me for the next few years for sure. If i spend that kind of money, i want to make sure that i spend it right. Not sure, if you guys are making a lot of money back off of your highspeed Cameras, or are just rich or something, but i wont in the forseeable future, so i also wont change cameras every year or buy a new one just cause. So i have seen this and am now like "Yeah ok, this exists" and will move on.

1. if you are not interested in new products and you do not see the point of following new products, why was it necessary to impose your opinion that you will have enough Chronos for 20 years. I'm not arguing that you can sit in a cave and make fire by friction, but we live in comfort.

2. why write so much text and then say, if you need a camera, go and buy it.

3. Here the crux of the issue was that a person wants to see such a camera from Chronos and that Chronos approached more professional cameras. because 5K dollars is a fairly high price for such a camera. At the moment, the camera is very raw and inconvenient to use. A lot of software things are not available for faster work


That's why you need a Chronos 2.1 camera? what kind of material have you already shot or will you shoot with it??
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 04:09:08 PM by SergeyKashin »

Nikon1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 722
    • View Profile
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2020, 06:21:04 AM »

1. if you are not interested in new products and you do not see the point of following new products, why was it necessary to impose your opinion that you will have enough Chronos for 20 years. I'm not arguing that you can sit in a cave and make fire by friction, but we live in comfort.

2. why write so much text and then say, if you need a camera, go and buy it.

3. Here the crux of the issue was that a person wants to see such a camera from Chronos and that Chronos approached more professional cameras. because 5K dollars is a fairly high price for such a camera. At the moment, the camera is very raw and inconvenient to use. A lot of software things are not available for faster work


That's why you need a Chronos 2.1 camera? what kind of material have you already shot or will you shoot with it??
Well, you where the one, telling me i MUST look more into new products, and follow the news about new hardware. I just in return tried to explain why i dont think i HAVE TO DO that, thats why i "imposed" my opinion that i think i will be happy with my cameras for a long time to come. Now i am not sure why you are kinda calling me a caveman here, but i know a lot of people and companys which use really old hardware (not just Cameras, in general), and still make good money from it. i would call it rather smart to get and use stuff that has a long livespan and use it as long as it does what has to be done. I know a company that does product photograhy, that still uses their old Nikon D300 up to this day (just as one example). Resolution is good enough for their need, and the camera is long paid for, so profit every time it gets any use. Also, just to clarify, this is my own, private Chronos 2.1. And while i used to work on different productions of different size and sometimes still do from time to time, from full size Movies to ENG stuff, this camera is just a toy for my own personal fun, because i allways wanted one, not because i really needed one. Most if not all the Stuff i did there didnt require any kind of highspeed-Camera at any point, and even if i ever get to work on something like this again, i am not sure if the Chronos would ever get any serious use there. I make a living in an way different profession than filmmaking right now, so this camera was bought with the full awareness that it will propably never make me any money back or even pay for itself. and yes, you are very right about that, if i where to sell cameras or would work at Krontech or something like that, i would NEED to follow the news about new hardware propably, but even there i would doubt if it was a hard MUST. As for my current situation, since it is a personal camera it will actually do what i want for a very long time to come, and i am very happy to now own an high Quality Highspeed-Camera, and dont really see, why i would look out for new hardware all the time, since i dont want to spend that much or even more again any time soon anyways, even if i could afford to do that. As i allready said, things are different when you make a lot of money back from paid work, but for me that propably wont happen any time soon.
 Also sorry for my long replies, i am not that good at compressing stuff into few words, and still want to try to be understood well. so for lack of better words i sometimes have to use more of them. I am not an native speaker, so thats might also a part of the reason. Most of my replies and posts here are that long or even longer btw., go check if you want to.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 06:28:28 AM by Nikon1 »

clkdiv

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: New Chronos 3.7 4k !
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2020, 08:32:22 AM »
Nevertheless the freefly camera is really incredible. Unlimited duration @ 1480 fps FullHD and 480 fps @ 4k. Woooooo....