Author Topic: Why the vertical color bands  (Read 5726 times)

Nikon1

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2020, 02:26:13 PM »
Played around a bit more around with the new Unstable 0.5.037 Update, Here is A dynamic-Range Test with some Very bright and Very Dark areas in frame.
 .
 Shot on the Xenon 50mm f/2 @ f/2.8  357  0dB  1000fps  Full-Resolution  43C-Sensor-Temp.
 .
 Posting DNG and both Tiff-Options as well as an PNG-Convert from the DNG in Adobe PS CS6 Without any added Effects (no denoise, no effects at all, saved as uncompressed PNG), all saved from the Same Recording / Same Frame.
 Never Tried TiffRAW bevore, that one actually looks really interresting tbh. Still prefer DNG personally however.
 .
 So far pretty impressed with the Update. Its still not quite perfect, still some Lines there, but its much better then bevore allready.
 .
 .
 #EDIT#: Again wont let me upload the DNG for some reason, so here i try uploading everything else, and maybe adding the DNG later, if it lets me...

SergeyKashin

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2021, 03:56:10 PM »
You can push the noise forever, but you want them to be less on the source file((

Nikon1

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2021, 04:42:30 PM »
You can push the noise forever, but you want them to be less on the source file((

 .
 
In Summary, this post of me above was meant as a small addition to Photopages Statement, to give some Help or idea what to do, even if you for some Reason end up having some amount of lines in your Shots, to make it possible to save them if you messed up while shooting (or it was just not possible to do better in the given Conditions), or to improove good shots that still have faint noise, if you seek perfection. This is still no replacement for Propper Lighting or setting the Camera Propperly, allways try to get it right in Camera as good as you can.
Yeah, i guess we all agree on that...
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 05:24:54 PM by Nikon1 »

SergeyKashin

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2021, 06:22:34 PM »
Played around a bit more around with the new Unstable 0.5.037 Update, Here is A dynamic-Range Test with some Very bright and Very Dark areas in frame.
 .
 Shot on the Xenon 50mm f/2 @ f/2.8  357  0dB  1000fps  Full-Resolution  43C-Sensor-Temp.
 .
 Posting DNG and both Tiff-Options as well as an PNG-Convert from the DNG in Adobe PS CS6 Without any added Effects (no denoise, no effects at all, saved as uncompressed PNG), all saved from the Same Recording / Same Frame.
 Never Tried TiffRAW bevore, that one actually looks really interresting tbh. Still prefer DNG personally however.
 .
 So far pretty impressed with the Update. Its still not quite perfect, still some Lines there, but its much better then bevore allready.
 .
 .
 #EDIT#: Again wont let me upload the DNG for some reason, so here i try uploading everything else, and maybe adding the DNG later, if it lets me...

Where did you download the firmware?

Nikon1

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2021, 06:23:44 PM »

Nikon1

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2021, 05:08:18 PM »
Played around a bit more around with the new Unstable 0.5.037 Update, Here is A dynamic-Range Test with some Very bright and Very Dark areas in frame.
 .
 Shot on the Xenon 50mm f/2 @ f/2.8  357  0dB  1000fps  Full-Resolution  43C-Sensor-Temp.
 .
 Posting DNG and both Tiff-Options as well as an PNG-Convert from the DNG in Adobe PS CS6 Without any added Effects (no denoise, no effects at all, saved as uncompressed PNG), all saved from the Same Recording / Same Frame.
 Never Tried TiffRAW bevore, that one actually looks really interresting tbh. Still prefer DNG personally however.
 .
 So far pretty impressed with the Update. Its still not quite perfect, still some Lines there, but its much better then bevore allready.
 .
 .
 #EDIT#: Again wont let me upload the DNG for some reason, so here i try uploading everything else, and maybe adding the DNG later, if it lets me...

Where did you download the firmware?

 When you test out the new Firmware, also try saving as h.264 for the footage and whatever uncompressed Format you are using usualy from the same Shot and Compare them.
 h.264 Quality seems really reasonable now, and noise appears to be quite a bit less then for example on the DNGs. Color and Whitebalance is still quite the pain to get right with h.264 Footage, but otherwise its worth a try if you try to improove the Noise on the original Footage (i used 60Mbps Setting for h.264 and 25fps Saved File Framerate).
 .
 

SergeyKashin

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2021, 11:45:20 PM »
http://debian.krontech.ca/builds/

Do you happen to know where you can get a 3d camera model with real dimensions?

Nikon1

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2021, 01:16:26 AM »
closest Thing i know to an 3D-Model to scale would be the Mechanical Drawing on the Website:
 .
 https://www.krontech.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/chronos_2.1-HD_mounting_hole_locations.pdf
 .
 For an Actuall 3D-Model you would propably need to ask someone at krontech, because that is not published anywhere so far, from what i know.
 The Drawing has most of the Relevant dimensions anyways, so maybe that is enough allready. The Drawing is to scale, so if you took it and imported it into any 3d-Software you should be able to reproduce a pretty close representation of the Actual thing. It basically is just a cuboid Shape with that fancy grip and some rounded over edges anyways...
 .
 Really depends, what you are trying to do. Building Custom Camera Cage/ mount? For something like that, the Drawing would likely be enough (unless you want to make an 100% form-Fitting custom Handgrip or something, that could be hard).
 .
 For some of the Internal Dimensions there are a couple more Drawings published, of which i know of, but not all that much.
 .
 #EDIT#: if you happen to find one however, please also let me know, still want to build a custom Camera cage myself (including Grip)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 01:18:27 AM by Nikon1 »

NiNeff

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2021, 08:08:03 AM »

Nikon1

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2021, 04:56:25 AM »
Did some Temperature vs. Noise tests, and from what i can tell, Temperature DOES seem affect noise and Dynamic range quite a bit. I am still not done completely setting up the Watercooling for mine (need to make some more tiny Watercooling Connectors for 2mm Brass hard tubing, some are allready done), to test it propperly, so i cant say for sure yet, but that got me thinking about this topic again.
 .
 Would be very interresting to know at what kind of temperature your cameras are typically running when you get issues With Lines. Can anyone of you share some Temperatures (you can find a Sensor- and System-Temperature Readout in the Util-Menu in the About-Tab)?
 .
 When The Sensor is really hot, i also seem to get more problems With Lines, even at really good Light, on an Cold Sensor its a lot less visible with the lines. Will do some Propper Testing when i come Around to fully setting up the Cooling on mine.
Watercooling is finally set up, and did a first test:
 https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=635.0

julien

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2021, 03:55:46 AM »
Thank you all for your posts, it helped me a lot in learning the camera.
I did some tests with much better results :

https://youtu.be/_t4vKoO6OQw

I used Neat as a denoiser, it worked well.
It is possible to overexpose by 1 stop when shooting and be able to recover everything without loss at color grading.
This makes it easier to remove vertical stripes in post production.  :)

Nikon1

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2021, 06:20:37 AM »
Thank you all for your posts, it helped me a lot in learning the camera.
I did some tests with much better results :

https://youtu.be/_t4vKoO6OQw

I used Neat as a denoiser, it worked well.
It is possible to overexpose by 1 stop when shooting and be able to recover everything without loss at color grading.
This makes it easier to remove vertical stripes in post production.  :)
Some Quite nice Shots there! Would love to see some BTS Images of the Light-Setup for this, the Paint Glasses Look really well Lit. From The Mirror Ball Reflections i assume 3 Big Lamps. (Arri Lamps? From the Other Shot, where one is slightly in Frame...).
 .
 Also Check out the New Software 0.6.0, for High-Resolution Stuff its a huge Improovement. Havent got too much time To test it yet, but the Vertical Noise is way better on that one, and Analog Gain also is now way more useable, even without denoising sometimes.

julien

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Re: Why the vertical color bands
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2021, 10:09:28 AM »
You are right ! it is indeed an ARRI Daylight M18. But there is only one with a fresnel and silver reflective panel on the other side. :)
I did some tests with the gain beyond 3db, you lose a lot on the quality of the image.

the shots with the balloons were shot at 2000 fps in 720p. I used Topaz Video Ai Enhanced for uspcaling in 4K. and the result is impressive!

I will update 0.6.0 ;)