Author Topic: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!  (Read 3890 times)

Nikon1

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MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« on: November 19, 2020, 02:07:29 PM »
So finally here it is: MFT-Mount for The Chronos.
 I designed one way back in early 2018, a pretty crude one.  https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=123.msg1205#msg1205
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 Now The user likevvii made an very useable Design with some Input from me, he wrote:
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Quote
Here is the file if you want to post it on the forums. Forums doesnt let me upload the image so I have to use my own upload website. I dont have a reliable upload site so it is better if I didnt post it since it may get deleted in the future.

 It was designed specifically to be resin printed.
 
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 Is made especially for the 2.1, but should work on an 1.4 as well.
 Metall MFT-Mount from here is mounted onto the Resin Print:
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 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GU6OBU8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Nikon1

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2020, 12:50:21 PM »
A small Clarification here, since Bian asked me, if i can also upload the STL file for the Print:
 If i didnt put it clear enough in the Original Post, here again, I did not make this, this is a Design by the Forum user "likevvii". This is also not my Camera, images and STL file are made by him, not me.
 He just came and asked me about a bunch of details and Dimensions, on how to make such an Adapter, and i Sent him A very rough Sketch for one and provided Some Measurements with it, he then went ahead and made the Adapter shown here, a very Clean and Beautifull Design that should hold up reasonable well for light average use (for rough Production Environment/ industry/ Very Heavy lenses or all other Heavy use i would still highly reccomend to use some kind of Metal Adapter).
 About a Week later i asked him, how his Adapter was working out for him, and he sent me above Images and STL-File, but couldnt upload to the Forum (Had similar Problems in the Past at random times also sometimes myself), and told me i can Upload them if i want, so i did, since this seems very worth sharing with the World, finally an propper MFT-Adapter Design that is affordable/ Finally a way to mount an Speedbooster for those who want that.
 STL File for the Print is also Uploaded in the Original Post above, maybe a bit hard to see, because there is images uploaded also. Its 3 Images and 1 STL-file.

julien

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2021, 04:09:49 AM »
I would like to put a speedbooter too.
Do you have any tips to remove the CS steel ring without damaging the sensor, did you use a special tool?

Bian

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2021, 04:48:29 AM »
I would like to put a speedbooter too.
Do you have any tips to remove the CS steel ring without damaging the sensor, did you use a special tool?

Its realy easy to remove it: Unscrew the little hexagonal socket screw at the bottom of the camera (its also for adjusting the flange back) - remove the scew and the little metal pin. Then you are able to unscrew and remove the steel ring.

Nikon1

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2021, 06:24:14 AM »
I posted an somewhat detailed Explaination with plenty Images Here:
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 https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=614.msg3949#msg3949
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 There is also A Full Tutorial From Krontech themselfs, where it is explained with some Images:
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 https://www.krontech.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/IR-Filter-.pdf
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 If needed, i can also post an Video of how to remove it, let me know.

Nikon1

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2021, 06:36:02 AM »
I would like to put a speedbooter too.
Do you have any tips to remove the CS steel ring without damaging the sensor, did you use a special tool?

If you refer to actually unscrewining the Ring itself, there are two holes in it, which will fit an 1,2mm or Smaller Drill or Pin. Usually the Ring itself shouldnt be that Tight, and mostly can be unscrewed just with my fingers on mine or with the Help of a bit of Double Sided Tape on the Flat side of the Bodycap. There Shouldnt be much Force Needed, but if you cant get it off with those tricks, use some Small Pins/ Tiny Allen Wrenches/ Drill Bits to grip onto. There are obviously propper Tools For this, basically a ring/ Wrench with two pins sticking out, but you could help yourself with Drill bits or whatever you can find Laying around. See Image, Left side is a 1.2mm Drill, Right is an 1.0mm Drill.

Nikon1

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2021, 06:46:11 AM »
I would like to put a speedbooter too.
Do you have any tips to remove the CS steel ring without damaging the sensor, did you use a special tool?

If yours is Tight for whatever Reason and you need to Remove it often and might want an Dedicated tool for it, here is a cheap one for universal Use on different Lenses And Rings just Like that. There are also obviously way more Expensive ones...
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 https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4000182977023.html? .
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 #EDIT#: I Just read through the Krontech Tutorial Again, and it seems like they reccomend to use the 5mm C-Mount Spacer (aka. CS- to C-Mount Adapter) as a grip to hold onto to remove the Ring, which, if i think about it, propably is a good idea to reccomend to people, though i never did it that way, and most likely never will. If you end up using any pins or Drills, make sure they are as Close as Possible to the Size of the Hole and dont Force it, to avoid producing a Bur on the Edges of the Holes, which will mess up your Flange Surface on the Mount-Ring.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 07:02:42 AM by Nikon1 »

julien

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2021, 09:47:44 AM »

 #EDIT#: I Just read through the Krontech Tutorial Again, and it seems like they reccomend to use the 5mm C-Mount Spacer (aka. CS- to C-Mount Adapter) as a grip to hold onto to remove the Ring, which, if i think about it, propably is a good idea to reccomend to people, though i never did it that way, and most likely never will. If you end up using any pins or Drills, make sure they are as Close as Possible to the Size of the Hole and dont Force it, to avoid producing a Bur on the Edges of the Holes, which will mess up your Flange Surface on the Mount-Ring.

With the c mount spacer, I don't see how to do this. Because it is unscrewed before the metal ring.
I'll try with drills. Once removed, I will only use the Speedbooster.

How did you attach the MFT ring to the resin plate? Did you use threaded inserts, did you keep the original screws?

Thank you for your answers :)

Nikon1

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2021, 01:55:36 PM »
[...], I did not make this, this is a Design by the Forum user "likevvii". This is also not my Camera, images and STL file are made by him, not me. [...]
As i wrote above, i havent printed or used this exact Adapter, i am making mine from Metal. I personally would use the Screws that come with the Adapter. Those Macro Tubes Are Basically just a Plastic Spacer, with two Metal MFT-Mounts, one male one Female. On The Original Macro tubes its also just Screwed directly to the Plastic into some Predrilled/ molded hole of appropriate Size. As those are fine for most standard Lenses, i would be fine with also just screwing it into the Plastic itself, and using it that way. As i also Said, i wouldnt trust it too much with Huge/ Heavy lenses Either, because its still just plastic and A bunch of tiny screws holding all the Weight. But if you didnt know, even most DSLRs will just have a Metal mount, which is mounted like this, screwed straight into the Plastic Body, where people will put 70-200 2.8 Lenses on and abuse them in all kinds of ways. Those tiny screws can hold surprisingly much.
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 Those Screws, that are originally used in the Macro tubes typically dont use Standardized Machine Threads, but something compareable to Wood-Screw-Threads (idk. how to word this better, not native speaker, there is propably a propper term for it...?). Meaning more coarse Threads with bigger Spacing in between them than compared to a Machine Screw of compareable Size. They are ment to screw into a blunt, straight hole without any Threads in them bevorehand, and deform the Plastic to form a Thread inside there, basically Self Tapping Plastic Screws? Best Mounting with those can be achived by messuring the Minor "Shaft" Diameter, without the Threads with some Calipers and making the Holes that exact size. I dont have those exact macro tubes Listed above, and havent looked into the 3d-File that closely, but if that was important to you, go ahead and double check the Size of those Holes, and modify them, if they are too big/ Small.
 Dont use those Screws with Threaded Inserts, not only will no standardized Thread insert fit (you would have to make some custom ones or get some Made, if you really wanted to...), those screws are also not meant for metal.
 If you dont trust those Screws, and want to use something more Metal, i would use Standard Machine Screws with Compareable Size and Standard Hex nuts of the Same Thread, which i would make Room For in the Back of the Adapter (Camera Side), a Hex Hole, so you would only need a Screw Driver From The Front.
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 If that is still not good enough, go ahead and find some CNC-Machine Shop and get basically the Same thing made from Aluminum, but with Machine Threads.
 Pay attention however, Bian told me, that the 3D-File needs to be Slightly ground to achive propper Flange Focal Distance, which is by design, so the adapter can be fit to the Camera and wont end up too short, if there are Tollerances between the Individual Cameras by Krontech. Else Focus on your Lens will be Slightly off, and you wont be able to focus on Infinity and Distant Objects.
 So it would be a very good idea, to make a Resin one first, figure out the Exact needed Dimension for Your Camera Unit, and use that for the Final Metal one, if you want to save yourself grinding the Metal one down, which is way harder to do and will take lot more time.
 I dont know, where are you from, and how the situation there is, but here in Germany, you can find Plenty of Machinist Pensioners with a Hobby Mill in their Garage or Basement and even small (one man-) Companies that will offer to take small Machine Jobs like such an Adapter (ebay + ebay Kleinanzeigen and such). Still will cost way more than a Resin one or Mass Producing them, depending on how you want it Machined and who does it, but propably a good option to keep in mind, if you have Serious Concerns about the Resin one Holding up to your Usecase Requirements.
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 Hope this could answer your Question
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 #EDIT#: Forgot to add the Images I wanted to put here... Here they are, originally taken as an example to show how little actually holds a Lens an Camera (and other Stuff) together to some New People, as i saw one of them trying to Forcefully Remove a Lens by Just Trying to Turn it with two hands and Full Force, without even Pushing the Lock-/ Release Button on a Cam on Set the day bevore...  :o  Quite a sight to behold, still surprised the Cam and Lens where fine after that.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 02:25:55 PM by Nikon1 »

Nikon1

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2021, 02:02:28 PM »
With the c mount spacer, I don't see how to do this. Because it is unscrewed before the metal ring.
I'll try with drills. Once removed, I will only use the Speedbooster.
For removing it with the C-Mount Spacer, you need to keep it attached the whole time. Treat Them as a Single Piece. Tighten the C-Mount Spacer to the Camera Body bevore loosening the Small Worm Screw in the Bottom Of the Camera, so it wont come Loose Later. Loosen The Screw, remove the Brass Rod, Screw the C-Mount Spacer with the Stainless Steel-Mount Ring Out of there as One Piece. Depending on how hard you did Tighten Them bevorehand, you might not be able to get them apart again, once removed from the Camera. To Get them Apart again, do all the Above in Reverse order, and Unscrew the Spacer once you have Tightened the Bottom Worm Screw back up.
 As suggested by this Tutorial by Krontech, the Intended way of doing this, is to just keep them Together, not removing them.

julien

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2021, 01:29:34 AM »
I did not understand that there was a screw to remove underneath. It's much easier to unscrew the ring after removing the screw. ^^
I'm going to do some 3D printing tests of the board you posted. Thanks to likevvii!
I will test several thicknesses to find the right distance to have the focus at infinity.
I am French, and in Lyon, I did not find a workshop to make the aluminum part. But that will be my final goal because I have a project to mount the camera and the Laowa probe Lens on a DIY High Speed Slider Motion Control ^^
And I would need the set-up to hang on the slider :)

I'll make a post about it elsewhere.  ;)

Nikon1

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2021, 05:43:57 AM »
yes, for stuff like this, i would highly Reccomend to at least use an Metal Mount, if not even Additional Support with an Metal Mount, depending on how fast you want to go with it. Make sure to test the Kind of motion you want to do over some Thick Padding, so if the Lens Comes Loose or the Mount Breaks, it wont just smack against a wall or the Ground at full speed.
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 As Far as Making a Metal one goes, if you are from France, shipping is not a Problem, and i can find someone In Germany to make one for you or do it myself. Would need to look into it more closely to figure out if it would be worth making one Myself or to get it done by some CNC-Shop, as i only have a Manual Mill. I also plan on making one for Myself fom Metal, it might make sense to order them at once at some CNC-Shop, as Setup Cost for Making a Part like this is usually the Majority of the Cost for only One Piece, which means it will get way more affordable per Adapter, if you order a bunch of them at once. If you are interrested (Or other People from Europa, if we can just order a bunch, they Should be quite a bit cheaper than for single Units), let me know, then i will figure something out.
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 #EDIT#:
 https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-fr%C3%A4steile/k0
 Here you can take a look youself and find someone to mill it for you, i guess most Shops would also Ship to France if you asked.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 06:18:26 AM by Nikon1 »

julien

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2021, 06:38:50 AM »
that seems like a great idea! I don't think that we are much to want to order this kind of parts, but I will inquire, to know the price, I will tell you;)

As you can see, it will go very quickly. 5G acceleration.   :o
I will design a cage to fix the cemera and the lens, in addition.

Have you been able to test with the speedbooster and nikon lenses?
do you have infinite focus?
I am waiting to receive the MFT ring you mentioned, it should arrive next week.

Nikon1

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2021, 07:02:48 AM »
yes, Infinity Focus is possible with the Metabones ones. I currently own an Nikon-F to BMPCC (0,58x) and an Nikon-F one with 0,64x Magnification. Looking to also get an Standard 0,71x metabones one myself, because some DX Lenses Like the Sigma 18-35 and 50-100 Wont cover the Full 2.1 Sensor with the 0,71, cause Image Circle of the Lens is too small (Final Assembly has larger than DX-Format FOV!) and the 0,64x is anyways just barely covering the 2.1 Sensor, and has trouble with some Lenses. Both my Speedboosters have a Custom Made N1-Mount to also Mount on my Nikon1-Cameras and will mount to the Chronos with an Custom N1- to Chronos adapter. Given they are Mounted at the Correct Distance from the Sensor they allow for Infinity focus and a correct Focusing Scale on the Lens. They all Physically fit onto the Chronos Camera, but at least for the 0,58x and 0,64x, the Stainless Mount Of the Chronos needs to be Removed, not too sure about the 0,71x one, but could also need to be Removed.
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 5G is quite a bit, considering the Probe Lens is also very long and the Sudden Start and Stop could have way higher G-Forces happening for just a very short moment. Depending on how Long You need the Pointy part of the Lens to be, i would try to support it as far in the Front as Possible. Most Sturdy Support would propably be to have some Kind of Round Clamping part in the Front around the Shaft of the Lens and then four arms to each mount on two of the M4 Threaded Holes On top, Bottom, Left and Right of the Camera Body, while the Mount of the Lens is attached to the four holes in the Front of the Body. If you make the Arms Beefy enough, i assume even a 3D-Printed Support would proppably do the Job just fine and be Sturdy enough, but please dont quote me on that, if it breaks. Savest bet would still be to have an Metal Adapter and Metal Supports, if you Wanted to be absolutely sure.

julien

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Re: MFT Mount for Chronos 2.1 --- Resin Print with metal Mount!
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2021, 09:12:52 AM »
ok, good news, yes I managed to remove the steel CS mount, thanks to your advice :)
I have a speedbooster x0.64 MFT to Nikon

Yes I will be very careful, I can set the speed, I will go gradually.

For the moment I succeeded in obtaining a phase of linear acceleration with no load on 4 cm, then 20 cm at 4 m / s constant, then 4 cm of decelleration.

Don't worry, I wouldn't blame you if it breaks in 3D printing: D

I would love to have a mini CNC Mill for cutting aluminum but I have not found a suitable machine around 500-600 euros.