Author Topic: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses  (Read 179 times)

arjunkartha

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Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« on: August 23, 2021, 03:16:57 AM »
Hey folks, I feel this is a bit of a noob question - but I'm the new owner of a brand new Chronos 2.1 and I can't wait to try it out. Based on the recommendations on the website, I bought the Photodiox  Nikon F to C lens adapter (https://www.krontech.ca/store/FotodioX-Nikon-F-Lens-Adapter-to-C-Mount-p140659144), as I have a whole bunch of Nikon lenses available (Like the Sigma 24-70/2.8 listed as a recommended lens on the website here (https://www.krontech.ca/store/Suited-for-the-Chronos-2-1-HD-c52765838)

So here's where I'm stuck: for the life of me I can't figure out how to change the lens aperture as it's internal and usually controlled via the camera. I've read through the forum but can't seem to make out if I'm missing something really obvious. Help appreciated!

Cheers,
- A newbie slow-mo guy


muringuets

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2021, 07:25:23 AM »
Hey folks, I feel this is a bit of a noob question - but I'm the new owner of a brand new Chronos 2.1 and I can't wait to try it out. Based on the recommendations on the website, I bought the Photodiox  Nikon F to C lens adapter (https://www.krontech.ca/store/FotodioX-Nikon-F-Lens-Adapter-to-C-Mount-p140659144), as I have a whole bunch of Nikon lenses available (Like the Sigma 24-70/2.8 listed as a recommended lens on the website here (https://www.krontech.ca/store/Suited-for-the-Chronos-2-1-HD-c52765838)

So here's where I'm stuck: for the life of me I can't figure out how to change the lens aperture as it's internal and usually controlled via the camera. I've read through the forum but can't seem to make out if I'm missing something really obvious. Help appreciated!

Cheers,
- A newbie slow-mo guy

Not sure if I got it right, but, I think you're looking for this:

https://prnt.sc/1qfqxao

Just turn the blue ring and it will control de lens aperture... If your lens has the aperture ring control thing (it's a lever like this one: https://prnt.sc/1qfr2oe )... if not, then I don't know

mklinger

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2021, 07:31:46 AM »
Hey folks, I feel this is a bit of a noob question - but I'm the new owner of a brand new Chronos 2.1 and I can't wait to try it out. Based on the recommendations on the website, I bought the Photodiox  Nikon F to C lens adapter (https://www.krontech.ca/store/FotodioX-Nikon-F-Lens-Adapter-to-C-Mount-p140659144), as I have a whole bunch of Nikon lenses available (Like the Sigma 24-70/2.8 listed as a recommended lens on the website here (https://www.krontech.ca/store/Suited-for-the-Chronos-2-1-HD-c52765838)

So here's where I'm stuck: for the life of me I can't figure out how to change the lens aperture as it's internal and usually controlled via the camera. I've read through the forum but can't seem to make out if I'm missing something really obvious. Help appreciated!

Cheers,
- A newbie slow-mo guy

If the Nikon system works the same as Canon, you can change the aperture on the lens with an external camera (Canon has a DOF preview button which stops the lens down - this is what the Nikon will need to duplicate this), and with the camera still powered on, remove the lens and the lens will retain its aperture setting.  You can then attach the lens to the Chronos and it'll have the new aperture.

You'll need to reattach the lens to the "real" camera any time you want to change the aperture, but this process has worked very well for me.


arjunkartha

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2021, 07:36:09 AM »

Not sure if I got it right, but, I think you're looking for this:

https://prnt.sc/1qfqxao

Just turn the blue ring and it will control de lens aperture... If your lens has the aperture ring control thing (it's a lever like this one: https://prnt.sc/1qfr2oe )... if not, then I don't know

Yup, you got it right - except that the one I bought (from the Chronos website) is apparently the version without the blue ring. Which is a pity because I just realised it's much cheaper in B&H!



If the Nikon system works the same as Canon, you can change the aperture on the lens with an external camera (Canon has a DOF preview button which stops the lens down - this is what the Nikon will need to duplicate this), and with the camera still powered on, remove the lens and the lens will retain its aperture setting.  You can then attach the lens to the Chronos and it'll have the new aperture.

You'll need to reattach the lens to the "real" camera any time you want to change the aperture, but this process has worked very well for me.



Haha, this process works great - except it's obviously a pain to keep putting it on a newer camera everytime to change it, but I think this is the way to go in the meanwhile!

Glad I wasn't missing something obvious!

mklinger

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2021, 07:41:29 AM »
Hey folks, I feel this is a bit of a noob question - but I'm the new owner of a brand new Chronos 2.1 and I can't wait to try it out. Based on the recommendations on the website, I bought the Photodiox  Nikon F to C lens adapter (https://www.krontech.ca/store/FotodioX-Nikon-F-Lens-Adapter-to-C-Mount-p140659144), as I have a whole bunch of Nikon lenses available (Like the Sigma 24-70/2.8 listed as a recommended lens on the website here (https://www.krontech.ca/store/Suited-for-the-Chronos-2-1-HD-c52765838)

So here's where I'm stuck: for the life of me I can't figure out how to change the lens aperture as it's internal and usually controlled via the camera. I've read through the forum but can't seem to make out if I'm missing something really obvious. Help appreciated!

Cheers,
- A newbie slow-mo guy


One more thing, don't forget the Chronos 2.1 has an effective 2x crop, so the field of view of your 24-70 will be 48-140mm, which will typically move you back from your subject giving you more depth of focus.  That means for most subjects, you can probably shoot that lens wide open at f2.8 and not worry about changing the aperture by stopping it down.

If you are doing macro or even moderate close up work, you may need to stop down, but you'll need tons of light. 

Nikon1

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2021, 10:11:17 AM »


If the Nikon system works the same as Canon, you can change the aperture on the lens with an external camera (Canon has a DOF preview button which stops the lens down - this is what the Nikon will need to duplicate this), and with the camera still powered on, remove the lens and the lens will retain its aperture setting.  You can then attach the lens to the Chronos and it'll have the new aperture.

You'll need to reattach the lens to the "real" camera any time you want to change the aperture, but this process has worked very well for me.



Haha, this process works great - except it's obviously a pain to keep putting it on a newer camera everytime to change it, but I think this is the way to go in the meanwhile!

Glad I wasn't missing something obvious!
Well, no. The Nikon lens System DOES NOT work the same as you Described with Canonīs.
 Like Shown in the Video i linked in my first reply (please go and Watch that/ actually read that carefully, what i linked there, thatīs the reason why i put the Links there. Everything is basically already explained there, if you read it carefully), Nikon does not have any kind of Electronic Aperture on its F-Mount Lenses, but only an fully Mechanical one.
 If you want to do any kind of workaround without the Proper G-Style Lens Adapter, you need to do an Mechanical Workaround for Nikon G-Style Lenses (meaning Lenses without Aperture Ring on the Lens itself). One (and probably one of the Only well working ways of doing it, that i know of. At least without permanent Modification of the Lens itself.) Way of doing it, is the Way that is also shown in that Video i uploaded there.

Nikon1

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2021, 10:20:15 AM »

Not sure if I got it right, but, I think you're looking for this:

https://prnt.sc/1qfqxao

Just turn the blue ring and it will control de lens aperture... If your lens has the aperture ring control thing (it's a lever like this one: https://prnt.sc/1qfr2oe )... if not, then I don't know

Yup, you got it right - except that the one I bought (from the Chronos website) is apparently the version without the blue ring. Which is a pity because I just realised it's much cheaper in B&H!
I was wondering that anyways, but didnt comment on it at first...
 You realize, that that same Adapter is literally INCLUDED with the Camera Purchase already at no additional cost? The only option you have to choose from when Buying via the Website, is to get an Nikon or an Canon One, but the 2.1 should always come with one included. Not really an option to buy it without that one. Sure it is cheaper on B&H, and Probably even cheaper than that when buying directly from some Chinese Seller on Ebay or something, but if you go and order that one on the Shop additional to the Camera, they should actually send you two of those, if i understand it correctly.
 From your Original Post, i cant really tell if they already Shipped your Camera, but maybe cancel the order for the Additional Adapter if not shipped yet, and tell them it was a Mistake, as you will get one Included with the Camera Package already.

mklinger

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2021, 11:05:45 AM »

Regarding the adaptor with the external aperture control,  I haven't tested this myself, but when I originally communicated with the Kron folks before I bought my camera, they didn't recommend using the the external aperture ring control.

It makes sense that the external control using the adapter won't be the same as the aperture control inside the lens as the spacing is completely different.  Just be aware there may be some weird effects if you stop down the lens/converter combo that way.

As awkward as it is, I recommend using an external camera to stop down the lens first if needed.

These cameras are not run-and gun by any means and I've found it's usually required to plan out the shoot a bit first for best results.  An extra 30 secs to stop down the lens if needed isn't a big deal.  At least in my experience.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 11:08:05 AM by mklinger »

Nikon1

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2021, 11:23:40 AM »
As awkward as it is, I recommend using an external camera to stop down the lens first if needed.
This Literally WONT WORK!
 On Canon thats a Thing Maybe, never really worked with Canon Glass much, but on Nikon F-Mount G-Style Lenses i can tell you for sure it wont.
 Please go and watch the Video attached to the Post i linked in my first post in this Thread, here is the Link again:
 https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=516.msg2836#msg2836
 Nikon F-Mount lenses ARE ALREADY STOPPED DOWN ALL THE WAY NORMALLY!
 You CAN set the Aperture to whatever on the Camera and remove it, while camera still on, wont do anything.
 Once Removed from the Nikon Camera Body, the IRIS will fully close again!
 Your Image will just be stupidly dark if you dont use a Proper G-Style Adapter with a G-Style Lens, except you figure out a workaround like shown in the Video i Reference for the 5th time or something now.
 So stopping a Nikon G-Style Lens down is the Least of your concerns, Main Problem is how to get it open in the First Place without the Proper Adapter. It WILL try to close at all Times, unless Broken or Modified.
 

mklinger

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2021, 12:00:03 PM »
As awkward as it is, I recommend using an external camera to stop down the lens first if needed.
This Literally WONT WORK!
 On Canon thats a Thing Maybe, never really worked with Canon Glass much, but on Nikon F-Mount G-Style Lenses i can tell you for sure it wont.
 Please go and watch the Video attached to the Post i linked in my first post in this Thread, here is the Link again:
 https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=516.msg2836#msg2836
 Nikon F-Mount lenses ARE ALREADY STOPPED DOWN ALL THE WAY NORMALLY!
 You CAN set the Aperture to whatever on the Camera and remove it, while camera still on, wont do anything.
 Once Removed from the Nikon Camera Body, the IRIS will fully close again!
 Your Image will just be stupidly dark if you dont use a Proper G-Style Adapter with a G-Style Lens, except you figure out a workaround like shown in the Video i Reference for the 5th time or something now.
 So stopping a Nikon G-Style Lens down is the Least of your concerns, Main Problem is how to get it open in the First Place without the Proper Adapter. It WILL try to close at all Times, unless Broken or Modified.

Sorry, my only experience is with Canon lenses where it absolutely does work.  He referenced a Sigma lens, so maybe it'll work with that, not sure.

Nikon1

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2021, 12:12:44 PM »
Sorry, my only experience is with Canon lenses where it absolutely does work.  He referenced a Sigma lens, so maybe it'll work with that, not sure.
Fair, but even the Third-Party-Lenses like the Sigma ones will have the Exact Mechanism as original Nikon Brand ones like Shown there (Must have to Work on Nikon Cameras...). Nikon Went with an Mechanical Aperture Control Mechanism back on Analog SLR Cameras, and Since then never changed that, until they recently Changed Mount and Went Mirrorless with the Z-Mount. But F-Mount went through Several Iterations of Focus and Metering-Systems
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_F-mount#Designations
 But they Kept the Mount Itself and The Way Aperture is Controlled basically all the Way through from Start to now. One of the main Reasons why F-Mount is so crazy Popular, because there are just so many Lenses Around from Nikon Making them For Ages Like this, and almost all of them Being Backwards- and Forward-Compatible (there Is some Exceptions, but overall Compatibility and Legacy-Support across all of their Lenses and Cameras and All Adapters Ever Made for that System is pretty amazing). Also one of the Only Bayonet Style Lens Mounts where Dimensional Drawings are openly and Easily available in the Internet (at least the Only one i found any for, back when i spent quite a while Looking some Years ago, hope this would have changed by now, but wouldnt be surprised, if this was still the Case today).

mklinger

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2021, 12:28:14 PM »
Sorry, my only experience is with Canon lenses where it absolutely does work.  He referenced a Sigma lens, so maybe it'll work with that, not sure.
Fair, but even the Third-Party-Lenses like the Sigma ones will have the Exact Mechanism as original Nikon Brand ones like Shown there (Must have to Work on Nikon Cameras...). Nikon Went with an Mechanical Aperture Control Mechanism back on Analog SLR Cameras, and Since then never changed that, until they recently Changed Mount and Went Mirrorless with the Z-Mount. But F-Mount went through Several Iterations of Focus and Metering-Systems
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_F-mount#Designations
 But they Kept the Mount Itself and The Way Aperture is Controlled basically all the Way through from Start to now. One of the main Reasons why F-Mount is so crazy Popular, because there are just so many Lenses Around from Nikon Making them For Ages Like this, and almost all of them Being Backwards- and Forward-Compatible (there Is some Exceptions, but overall Compatibility and Legacy-Support across all of their Lenses and Cameras and All Adapters Ever Made for that System is pretty amazing). Also one of the Only Bayonet Style Lens Mounts where Dimensional Drawings are openly and Easily available in the Internet (at least the Only one i found any for, back when i spent quite a while Looking some Years ago, hope this would have changed by now, but wouldnt be surprised, if this was still the Case today).

I never knew Nikon lenses had a default aperture closed condition.  Seems very backwards as the lenses need to be fully open when auto-focusing for maximum light and only stop down right before taking the picture.

All Canon EF lenses (from ~1987 to present) are default wide open.  The down side being that they are only electronically controlled, aside from the Cinema line of lenses.  Being electronically controlled, it's easy to pull off the stop down/take the lens off trick.

At least there is a simple solution (as you show in your video) to force it wide open to make it useable on the Chronos.

My recommendation, as it was in the early 90s when I got heavily into photography, was Canon over Nikon.  Canon had a big advantage over Nikon during the early days of DSLR (early 2000s).  With modern mirrorless, the choice is harder, but it's between Canon and Sony with Nikon being a distant 3rd and maybe even 4th to Panasonic depending on the use case.
 

Nikon1

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2021, 01:19:29 PM »
Has its Advantages also being Normally Closed, for example different Lenses Could have differently strong Springs Holding the Aperture Closed, which will be needed for different Sized Mechanisms (for example a very small Iris assembly on an Wide angle Zoom with small Aperture vs a Huge Iris Assembly on Giant Long Tele Lenses With Fast Aperture). Also if the Mechanism was Broken on an Lens, only that Lens needed Repair/replace, not the Whole Camera (Camera Mechanism usually being WAY more Complex than Anything you would ever find inside a Lens from that time, if you ever disassembled /repaired any fully Mechanical Cameras from back in the Day without Electronics, True Clockworks of Precision and Artworks of Engineering).
 .
 I have Messed around with a bunch of Canon FD Lens, and still own an Single one today, which would be the Equivalent of Nikons F-Mount from the Time they started using that Mount, but canon Later moved on to EF Mount. On FD they needed To use two Levers with their Lenses Being Normally open. I guess Main Advantage of F-Mounts Decision to go Normally Closed was also, that they got away with only using an Single Lever for Both Controlling Aperture but also Shutter Release Action Usage. The Thing apparently worked so well that they just kept that the Same until very recently.
 .
 I guess the Main Disadvantages regards being normally closed are only from the more Recent G-Style Lenses. Those are the New Line of Lenses, without an dedicated Aperture Control Ring.
 That Was done for one, because Aperture Control Rings got somewhat obsolete on AF-S Lenses with any modern Nikon camera body being able to Set the Aperture Internally anyways, and also making Lenses Smaller, cheaper and More Reliable (less moving Parts = Less Stuff to break...).
 Nikon Cameras have no Problem With that, they are built to work that way, but basic Adapters like those (non-G-Style/ Cheaper) Nikon-F-Mount Adapters are a bit of a Problem, as there now is just nothing keeping the Iris Open anymore.
 .
 To give a bit of an Backstory to why it would have made a ton of sense to have it normally Closed, lets add some Info here:
 Back on the real Old Nikon SLR Lenses (still the Case with any Modern Lens that has an Dedicated Aperture Ring and An Nikon F-Mount Today, but makes way more sense if you go back a bunch of time in History), the Aperture would be "held open" by the Aperture Ring, setting the Desired Aperture, and Forced down to that Stop by the Internal Spring, trying to close the Iris at all times. The Aperture Ring would Act as an Adjustable Stop Point for The iris, and depending on where it was set, would close as Far as Possible.
 Now For Focusing the Iris Would need to be wide open on all Lenses (even With An Viewfinder Magnifier you will have trouble Properly setting Focus on say f/8 or something, so SLRs Typically would go wide open Normally for Focusing to allow at least some Realistic Chance of getting the Focus Right on Cameras before Focusing Sensors And things Like that where a Thing).
 So being Normally Closed, and the Aperture Ring just acting as a Stop for the Springloaded Mechanism, this now would allow for an Simple override by the Camera Body, which could just open the Iris Fully with that Small Lever on the Back of the Lens, and just fully Release that Same Lever when An Exposure Was Triggered. With there Being an Stop as to how far the Iris Could Possibly Close (Aperture Ring), the Camera would not have to Worry about how far to close that Lever or anything, but would just Slam out of the Way, full force, completely releasing the Aperture Control Lever on the Back of the Lens.
 Later Metering and Eventually actually controlling the Aperture Setting of the Lens through that Lever became a thing, and they needed to get more Refined with the Whole Mechanism, but back when it was implemented, this was about as Simple as that could have been Built before Electronics were Common in Camera Bodys.
 .
 In my opinion still the Superior Mechanism over Normally open, as Pentax K-Mount actually uses the Exact Same Mechanism (normally Closed also, same Principle of Setting Aperture, and almost same Flange Distance/ Mount Dimensions. Own a Bunch Of Pentax SMC-M Lenses, some of the Nicest Classic SLR Lenses Ever Made in my opinion, some Fine Glass they made Back then), which is still around today also and still works the Same as back then. Similar Age to Nikons Mount from what i know, but would have to look that up to be able to say exactly.
 Pentax being way less popular that Nikon F-Mount however (sadly).
 But from the fact, that both of those Mounts held up that well over ages and through that much Evolution in Camera Technology, that Mechanism couldnt have been all that bad, i guess.
 .
 Main Problem is however those Modern G-Style Lenses, as they dont have that Aperture Control Ring Anymore (actual Problem is more That so many People do for some Reason not know the Difference or how this works in general tbh., the System itself works well enough).
« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 01:22:33 PM by Nikon1 »

Nikon1

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2021, 02:20:52 PM »
My recommendation, as it was in the early 90s when I got heavily into photography, was Canon over Nikon.  Canon had a big advantage over Nikon during the early days of DSLR (early 2000s).  With modern mirrorless, the choice is harder, but it's between Canon and Sony with Nikon being a distant 3rd and maybe even 4th to Panasonic depending on the use case.

Oh, forgot to answer that, but my personal Recommendation is usually to go Nikon, especially for General Purpose Glass or if you just start out and just need any Camera, as even the G-Style F-Mount Lenses will allow full Control over Zoom, Focus, Aperture (correct Adapter being assumed), and have the Longest Flange Distance of common Camera Systems.
 So if i start out with Nikon F, i can still go with a Canon Body later if i wanted to, and use my lenses on there (talking DSLR/ F-Mount/ EF-Mount), while the other way around just wont work.
 .
 Mirrorless Systems are a Whole other Beast, which i am still not sure what to say about, but i highly expect none of them to survive for even close as long as F-Mount or C-Mount/ M42 did, and all of that Glass to become more or less obsolete sooner or later, because Camera Bodys will be outdated at some point (just look at vintage ENG-Lenses and CCTV-Lenses With electronic-only Aperture Control, nobody really wants those anymore today), and Lifespan of Camera Systems Might not be that long.
 Biggest Problem with Most Glass For Mirrorless Systems is however, because they are Mostly only Focus-By-Wire and Aperture-By-Wire (or at least one of the Two usually, some even Power-Zoom Even). And that means, there is no real Intended Way to use them without the Proper Camera Body they were Built for originally. So you cant just take any Fuji-X Mount lens and put it/ use it on an Chronos, even if building an Mechanical Adapter wasnt an issue.
 So sadly, quite a bit of those really nice Mirrorless Lenses we have around today will end up as Expensive Waste at some Point in the Future once their Camera Systems died i guess, or will need to be Rehoused or something, unless Someone is actually going to want to go through the Trouble of figuring out all of the Digital Communication that is going on between Camera and Lenses, and trying to somehow trick the Lens into thinking there was a camera there actually, when there is not.
 .
 Kind of a Difficult Topic, and only time will tell, what will happen to all those Mirrorless Lenses Made today in lets say 50 to 100 Years, and if you have any Mirrorless system you basically have to get a bunch of those Autofocus Lenses for that System if you want to use it to anywhere close to its full capacity, not really a way around it. Especially for Photography Purposes.
 .
 So my General Advise, like i already said, is to go Nikon F-Mount, if you just try to build a Decent Kit of (manual Full-Frame) Lenses for General Filmmaking or Manual Focus Photography (or AF even, if you want to go with an Nikon Body), as they just fit onto about any Camera besides maybe Pentax K-Bodies and will be usable very long Term.
 If you go for something more particular or need /heavily Rely on Autofocus and Stuff like that for Your kind of work, of course go with whatever your Camera System of choice Offers. Especially for the Newer Mirrorless Systems there are Plenty of new Lens Designs, that just were completely unheard of in classic DSLR Lenses, for Stuff like that you obviously also need with whatever you can get, if you can find any use for it. But while i love My Mirrorless 1Nikkor Lenses, and Probably would never sell them, unless i had to for some reason (they are just so damn nifty and Nimble Small, sharp Lenses. Easy to put into your Pocket to do some real low Footprint stuff (People will legit just ignore you with an ridiculously Tiny shiny silver camera and assume you are an tourist or something, which can be very useful at times...), and even have a Full kit with you, which takes up less space than an Full-Size DSLR with a Decent Zoom Lens on it), i still heavily prefer any lens that allows me full control over all Settings on it without the Need of Electronics being involved.