Author Topic: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses  (Read 180 times)

mklinger

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2021, 03:54:50 PM »
My recommendation, as it was in the early 90s when I got heavily into photography, was Canon over Nikon.  Canon had a big advantage over Nikon during the early days of DSLR (early 2000s).  With modern mirrorless, the choice is harder, but it's between Canon and Sony with Nikon being a distant 3rd and maybe even 4th to Panasonic depending on the use case.

Oh, forgot to answer that, but my personal Recommendation is usually to go Nikon, especially for General Purpose Glass or if you just start out and just need any Camera, as even the G-Style F-Mount Lenses will allow full Control over Zoom, Focus, Aperture (correct Adapter being assumed), and have the Longest Flange Distance of common Camera Systems.
 So if i start out with Nikon F, i can still go with a Canon Body later if i wanted to, and use my lenses on there (talking DSLR/ F-Mount/ EF-Mount), while the other way around just wont work.
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 Mirrorless Systems are a Whole other Beast, which i am still not sure what to say about, but i highly expect none of them to survive for even close as long as F-Mount or C-Mount/ M42 did, and all of that Glass to become more or less obsolete sooner or later, because Camera Bodys will be outdated at some point (just look at vintage ENG-Lenses and CCTV-Lenses With electronic-only Aperture Control, nobody really wants those anymore today), and Lifespan of Camera Systems Might not be that long.
 Biggest Problem with Most Glass For Mirrorless Systems is however, because they are Mostly only Focus-By-Wire and Aperture-By-Wire (or at least one of the Two usually, some even Power-Zoom Even). And that means, there is no real Intended Way to use them without the Proper Camera Body they were Built for originally. So you cant just take any Fuji-X Mount lens and put it/ use it on an Chronos, even if building an Mechanical Adapter wasnt an issue.
 So sadly, quite a bit of those really nice Mirrorless Lenses we have around today will end up as Expensive Waste at some Point in the Future once their Camera Systems died i guess, or will need to be Rehoused or something, unless Someone is actually going to want to go through the Trouble of figuring out all of the Digital Communication that is going on between Camera and Lenses, and trying to somehow trick the Lens into thinking there was a camera there actually, when there is not.
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 Kind of a Difficult Topic, and only time will tell, what will happen to all those Mirrorless Lenses Made today in lets say 50 to 100 Years, and if you have any Mirrorless system you basically have to get a bunch of those Autofocus Lenses for that System if you want to use it to anywhere close to its full capacity, not really a way around it. Especially for Photography Purposes.
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 So my General Advise, like i already said, is to go Nikon F-Mount, if you just try to build a Decent Kit of (manual Full-Frame) Lenses for General Filmmaking or Manual Focus Photography (or AF even, if you want to go with an Nikon Body), as they just fit onto about any Camera besides maybe Pentax K-Bodies and will be usable very long Term.
 If you go for something more particular or need /heavily Rely on Autofocus and Stuff like that for Your kind of work, of course go with whatever your Camera System of choice Offers. Especially for the Newer Mirrorless Systems there are Plenty of new Lens Designs, that just were completely unheard of in classic DSLR Lenses, for Stuff like that you obviously also need with whatever you can get, if you can find any use for it. But while i love My Mirrorless 1Nikkor Lenses, and Probably would never sell them, unless i had to for some reason (they are just so damn nifty and Nimble Small, sharp Lenses. Easy to put into your Pocket to do some real low Footprint stuff (People will legit just ignore you with an ridiculously Tiny shiny silver camera and assume you are an tourist or something, which can be very useful at times...), and even have a Full kit with you, which takes up less space than an Full-Size DSLR with a Decent Zoom Lens on it), i still heavily prefer any lens that allows me full control over all Settings on it without the Need of Electronics being involved.


If you are willing to stick to all manual control and are targeting collecting old lenses, then yes, Nikon F mount would be a good way to go.  The problem is if you couple that with an era-matching body from a price standpoint, it won't be as good as the Canon counterpart.

I really can't recommend people start buying them new today though.  Even Canon EF is nearing end-of-life as RF and mirrorless in general is the future.

BTW, the very latest modern lenses are incredible and way better optically than just about anything that came before them.  While I don't own a high-end mirrorless system yet (maybe the upcoming Canon R3), a lens like the RF 28-70mm f/2L is a lens unlike anything ever made before for any system.  Full-frame f2 zoom!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1433713-REG/canon_rf_28_70mm_f_2l_usm.html

This is of course a bit off-topic, as that lens, and none of the RF lenses for that matter can be used on the Chronos (without a custom modified mounting system), but who knows, maybe the next version will support them.

I have experienced the difference between the latest generation of conventional EF lenses and the ones made 10 and 20 years prior.  They are typically sharper, better color/contrast, and much lighter as well.  Most really good lenses have about a 10-15 year lifespan.  Not in terms of becoming unusable or getting worse, but in terms of being obsolete wrt better performance at the same price with a new generation replacement.

FWIW, that type of lens performance improvement is also not really realized with the Chronos as the sensor quality is worse than DSLRs from 20 years ago.  Not a knock on the LUX2100 at all, those cameras from 20 years ago couldn't shoot 1000 fps!!  But the Chronos isn't going to be used in any high end movie productions anytime soon either - which isn't its intended use at all.

Nikon1

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2021, 05:08:00 PM »
yeah, i think this got a bit Off-Topic, but my point was not to start some kind of Nikon vs Canon War here or anything like that, rather about the Fact that its not really good to get stuck with a ton of lenses that highly rely on proprietary undisclosed electronic Interfaces for general use or especially for cross-System use like with the Chronos or Similar Cameras, that for some Reason need an Purely Mechanical Interface. If you like Mirrorless or something, thats fine for me, do what you want and have fun with you camera, there is Plenty great Camera Systems and Lenses Out there, New, Old, Vintage, DSLR, Mirrorless, whatever you like. I own like at least 9 to 12 Pure Mirrorless Lenses, of which not a single one even has an actual Focus Ring (would need to count them) and am (as you can maybe tell from my username and Profile Picture) a huge Fan of Nikons 1" Mirrorless  System. So i am certainly not against Mirrorless or new Camera Tech in general or anything.
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 As i said, if you got any newer Camera System, there is not much of a way around those Lenses that lack full on-Lens-Controls.
 There is also no point in even trying to argue that new lenses wouldnt be (at least Potentially) better (ofc. not all of them, they still make some cheap crap for the Masses that dont care much today, like they did ever before). Not only that today there are plenty new Glass Substrates available, which where not back then, also things Like Aspheric Lenses, way better Coatings and better ways to design Lenses overall and a bunch of other things, we today can just build way more sophisticated optics than ever before in History.
 Still, there are some Great Old, High end Lenses available for cheap. And the real high end Lenses, where all that New Technology starts to really shine, is just very expensive.
 And some of these Grand Old Lenses still outperform quite a bit of the low end of new Lenses Made. Depends a lot also on what you are out for, Contrast is not always the Strongest Skill of those old Lenses amongst other things. My set of age old cheap Russian Contax-Mount Lenses still are Sharper than i can even Capture on an A7R3...
 Only Sad thing is, that most of the New Lens designs are, as i said only meant for a Digital interface.
 Mounting a Lens generally isnt that hard. Thats Somewhat low-Tech, you can do that with a bunch of Cardboard and some Hot-Glue, if you needed to (been there, done that...), and it will work, as long as the Lens allows you to access all its Settings somehow, which the New Mirrorless One will not (at least not without some high level efforts and a bunch of very specialized equipment, and some Dedication to Reverse Engineering Something. It clearly IS possible, and has been done before, f.Example see https://gfotostore.ru/?hash=page/nikon1 ).
 Mounting it well and repeatable / Reliable on an Interchangeable Mount is an other story, but even that is still easier than Building some kind of Digital interface to communicate with a lens, if you could as well just put an Focus-Ring and Aperture Ring on there in the First Place, thats What i am Saying.
 This sadly is not always easy, and i realize that (with need for Crazy Fast Autofocus and Iris-Movements), and there is some really good lenses, with high end new designs and Full Manual Controls, but those are usually Cine-Type Lenses and cost a fortune.
 However, those for sure will last you a while if you can afford them.
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 Regards RF-Mount on the Chronos, i looked into it, and the Flange Distance seems to be reasonable, to where such a Adapter would actually be Possible and Practical from an Mechanical Standpoint, but i dont think there is too much gained from such an Adapter (unless you are an RF-User already and own a bunch of good lenses). For one, most lenses would probably be Mainly digitally controlled i assume (not an canon guy myself, and especially not Mirrorless Canon, so i have really no clue what kind of lenses they or other Companies even offer for that Mount apart from the obvious ones..?), and then you also got the Sensor Format Mismatch.
 I dont think Canon would just give the Information about their RF-Mount Communication Protocol to Krontech or anyone really, at least not without them Paying some unreasonable amount of Money for that, and if they just went to figure it out on their own, apart from all the work that would cause, Canon would probably give them Serious Legal Trouble if they did end up offering anything like that in an Commercial Product anywhere.
 The Format Mismatch is the Other Big issue with Canon RF. While there certainly are still Wider Lenses available than for lets say DSLR Mount Full Frame Mounts, APS-C /35mm is still a way larger Format than the 4/3" Sensor of the 2.1, and you would just end up wasting most of the Image Circle on the Lenses and not getting the Most out of it, also the Crop.
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 If any Digital Lens Interface would make Sense on the Chronos IMHO, it would be MFT. Sensor Size Would Match perfectly, meaning, Lenses for that Mount will perform at their best on the 2.1, and the Widest Possible Lenses will be Available. MFT Communication Protocol also seems way more Approachable than trying to talk Canon into disclosing their Protocol for Free/ Cheap (good luck with that).
 Way Faster, Wider and Overall Smaller Lenses Are available for the Chronos, and about anything that comes with an MFT Mount should be sharp enough for the 2.1 i assume.
 Also Speedboosters.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 05:18:16 PM by Nikon1 »

Nikon1

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Re: Setting the aperture on non aperture ring lenses
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2021, 07:25:11 AM »
If any Digital Lens Interface would make Sense on the Chronos IMHO, it would be MFT. Sensor Size Would Match perfectly, meaning, Lenses for that Mount will perform at their best on the 2.1, and the Widest Possible Lenses will be Available. MFT Communication Protocol also seems way more Approachable than trying to talk Canon into disclosing their Protocol for Free/ Cheap (good luck with that).
 Way Faster, Wider and Overall Smaller Lenses Are available for the Chronos, and about anything that comes with an MFT Mount should be sharp enough for the 2.1 i assume.
 Also Speedboosters.

 I just randomly thought about this today, and did some Searching, here is some Links Regards reverse Engineering MFT-Mount / MFT-Pinout /-Protocol.
 Some People seem to already have done some Work here, so i absolutely would say, if any Digital / electronic Mount interface /-addon Adapter Plate would make sense, then MFT.
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 http://marcuswolschon.blogspot.com/2013/12/reverse-engineering-micro-four-thirds.html
 https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3379208
 http://preamp.org/static/four-thirds-communication-protocol/index.html
 .  Similar work seems to also exist for Canon EF-S Mount, but there seems to be way more Info out there about MFT (also only Mirrorless Electronic Lens Mount i know about with that much info out there, and by far also most popular one, that would also fit The Sensor Size of the 2.1):
 https://www.dslr-forum.de/showthread.php?t=649529&page=12
 https://pickandplace.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/canon-ef-s-protocol-and-electronic-follow-focus/
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