Author Topic: upgrade to Chronos 2.1-HD for higher fps at lower resolution?  (Read 11842 times)

AIAS

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Hello everyone

I had the Chronos 1.4 for nearly 3 years and a lot of improvement were done in these years in terms of software updates. well done.

I have the need to go for higher fps and Chronos 2.1-HD would theoretically satisfy my need. for example, at 336 x 240, the Chronos 1.4 would give 15,968 fps (form Data sheet). the Chronos 2.1-HD theoretically would give nearly 26,000 fps. mklinger posted a very handy resolution vs fps chart, you can view it here: https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=629.msg4103#msg4103

you can see that we only have 4 options for the horizontal length (1920, 1472, 1152, 832). Is it a limitation from the new sensor or could be improved/already solved with new software updates?

BTW, mklinger is a very old post, and the specifications of the Chronos 2.1-HD in the official store shows different horizontal length options (1920, 1440, 1280, 1024, 800, 640) but still doesn't show the capability of going down to 336 for example.


Please advise. Thank you,

Nikon1

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Re: upgrade to Chronos 2.1-HD for higher fps at lower resolution?
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2023, 06:56:40 AM »
Hi also.
 The Stuff mklinger posted about his Resolution vs FPS "Research" is still as Relevant as ever, as those are Hardware Limitations of the Camera.
 So that still holds true, just as he posted it, and Future Updates cant change anything about those Bare FPS / Resolution Performance Numbers.
 That is as long as that same Camera is still built with the same Hardware inside.
 .
 Apart from that, a 336px Wide Frame is just not Possible on the 2.1.
 The Lowest Horizontal Resolution that you can set is 640px Wide.
 And 640px wide by 240px High would allow for a Maximum Framerate of 10488,1fps on my 2.1
 To come back to what mklinger tried to say with his Post is, that you might as well just set it to 832px wide by 240px High, as that still allows for the exact same 10488,1fps Maximum Framerate.
 Lowering the Horizontal Resolution below 832px Wide does not increase the Maximum Possible Framerate.
 .
 Now, I dont have a 1.4 to compare (if 336px Wide is even possible on there?), but am Fairly Certain, that in terms of Framerate, the 1.4 outperforms the 2.1 on the really fast FPS Settings.
 In general, the 1.4 is for when you trying to get the highest Speed, the 2.1 is for getting High Resolution Shots, from how i understand it, while there is plenty of Overlap.
 .
 #EDIT#: Just Checked the Resolution Chart of the 1.4, and 336 / 320 px Wide Resolution is possible, which is probably why it can go so much faster than the 2.1

Nikon1

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Re: upgrade to Chronos 2.1-HD for higher fps at lower resolution?
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2023, 07:14:34 AM »
As a Small addition to above Post of me, a little Clarification regards the 1920, 1440, 1280, 1024, 800, 640 px Wide Presets and Listed Options including those.
 These Frame Widths are just EXTREMELY Commonly used and de-facto Standard Resolutions for Television an such for ages ( see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution#Resolution_in_various_media    --- you will find all of those listed Image Widths in there, those are the most commonly used ones).
 They are just included and standard Presets (also Listed on the Website) because the Vast Majority of Users, especially those with Media Production Background would want to use these as Default; because among many other Reasons Standard Resolutions are just way nicer to work with generally than some weird non Standard ones.
 .
 However, as explained, the Hardware on the Chip and inside the Camera does not quite match the Standard Resolutions where it performs best (Maximum Pixels per Second Recorded)

AIAS

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Re: upgrade to Chronos 2.1-HD for higher fps at lower resolution?
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2023, 10:36:26 PM »
Thank you very much for the clarification. it is an unfortunate that it cannot go below 832px due to hardware limitations, but still the Chronos 2.1-HD is a very good and affordable high speed camera and it seems that it was meant to be for media production industry and the Chronos 1.4 for both.

I wish it took all the advantages of its LUX2100 capabilities, but off course the price would go higher.

Nikon1

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Re: upgrade to Chronos 2.1-HD for higher fps at lower resolution?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2023, 07:17:12 AM »
well, it can go down to 640px Horizontal, but that will not Increase the Maximum Framerate. It will however allow you to increase the Record time, as the File-Size per Frame is smaller because less pixels, so it can fit more Frames in the Memory.
 So it can still be useful, if you try to Record some Long Event or Process, and need the High Framerate.
  .
 And, yes Sensors that can do that and even way higher performance ones are Available, but every bit better these get, they get MUCH more Expensive.
 Also, the LUX2100 can do Plenty more than what the Chronos 2.1 Specs are, but the Electronics inside the Camera Limit what they can Pull from the Sensor.
 Same as with the Sensor, that Electronic for Readout of the Data also gets very Expensive fast when it gets really high end.
 In the 2.1 the Readout Electronics can keep up well enough with the Sensor for the Most part on the High Resolutions, but for the Really Fast Framerates that Sensor could handle in Theory, the Camera just cant read it fast enough from the Sensor, so it tops out.
 The LUX2100 could apparently do 125,000 FPS @ 1920 x 8 (Full Sensor Width, 8px High), just the Problem is, Rest of the Camera is not able to keep up with that.
 See:
 luxima.com/product_briefs/LUX2100.html
 forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=463.0
 .
 There has been some Thread somewhere here, where Somebody from Krontech Posted instructions on How to Mod the Firmware, so you are able to Reduce the Resolution on the 1.4 so far, that you can get 100kfps on it, As it is not officially supported, and has pretty bad image Quality and is unstable.
 Its Still not Clear, if something like this could also be Possible on the 2.1 (not quite that Extreme like on the 1.4 probably, but even 35kfps on the 2.1 would be a pretty big thing), but it seems like the 2.1 is much more Limited by the Hardware of the Camera on those high Framerates than the 1.4
 .
 That being said, the LUX1310 the 1.4 uses is apparently able to do 1 Million "Frames" ( Lines) per Second, if used at Full Sensor width, but only 1 px High. So basically a Line-Scan Sensor.
 luxima.com/product_briefs/LUX1310.html
 How Realistic or Practicaly Possible it is to Reach that is a whole other story, just like on the 2.1, as you also need to read all of that Data off the Sensor fast enough, and not all of those chips needed for Readout of the Sensor like such weird or small Resolutions.

AIAS

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Re: upgrade to Chronos 2.1-HD for higher fps at lower resolution?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2023, 01:52:15 AM »
Yes, I remember when that firmware was released for the 1.4

in this post by foobar https://forum.krontech.ca/index.php?topic=464.msg3047#msg3047, I think that firmware was used on Chronos 2.1. off course and as you said, it is not supported anymore due to instability.


Thank you, it is a very informative repleys